RCD Protection for submains

[TJC1]

Evening all

We have been asked to do some redial work picked up by a testing company i a hostel. It has been picked up that is no RCD protection in the rooms

There are 5 submain circuits that feed the 20 consumer units, 4 consumers units per submain (B32) Each room have a consumer unit which has two double sockets off a 16a radial and a lighting.

They asked my advice on whether to change the submain MCB to RCBOs or whether to change the consumer units for main switch and RCBOs

They supply cables to each consumer unit are above a plasterboard ceiling but cant be sure of the installation method, does the submain need to be RCD protected? As i dont want to put RCBOs on each circuit and also on the submain also

Thanks

 

[Ian1981]

The EICR is simply that.

You are reporting on the condition of the installation not how people might use the installation.

You cannot proceed on the basis of what someone might do otherwise you would code everything at least a C2. Supposing the householder has a gardener who uses a petrol lawnmower ??.

I can see it being recommended but only if it was obvious that equipment was being used outside and certainly what you are proposing is not what I was taught.

And suppose you ask the homeowner if they use equipment outdoors plugged into a socket outlet and they answer yes?
Inspect on the facts and ask questions if need be ,to assist yourself
Commercially,ask for any risk assessment for omission of rcd protection to socket outlets then code appropriately on whether there is or there isn’t.
Asking the client for additional information can make all the difference

 

[Deleted member 26818]

And suppose you ask the homeowner if they use equipment outdoors plugged into a socket outlet and they answer yes?

Then that’s use of mobile equipment outdoors without RCD protection.
Not oh that socket might be used for equipment outdoors.

Inspect on the facts and ask questions if need be ,to assist yourself
Commercially,ask for any risk assessment for omission of rcd protection to socket outlets then code appropriately on whether there is or there isn’t.
Asking the client for additional information can make all the difference

Yes, inspect on the facts, use the current edition and don’t make things up.

 

[Ian1981]

Your point being ?
Are we going round in circles here or what?
Ultimately if the source of power for the external equipment has no rcd protection,then the equipment has no rcd protection unless they use a plug in rcd adapter which in most cases is evident or can be questioned

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Your point being ?

That you should code in accordance with BS7671.
i.e. don’t code a socket for non-compliance with a requirement that was dropped 11 years ago.

 

[Ian1981]

That you should code in accordance with BS7671.
i.e. don’t code a socket for non-compliance with a requirement that was dropped 11 years ago.

Looks like I’m the victim of a wind up here.
Enjoy your evening

 

[Bellendian]

That you should code in accordance with BS7671.
i.e. don’t code a socket for non-compliance with a requirement that was dropped 11 years ago.

It wasn't really 'dropped' though, simply superceded by the requirement that all socket outlets below 20a require 30ma additional protection.
But the level of danger posed remains different as per the best practice guidance. That states c2 if kit likely to be used outdoors and c3 for other socket outlets if I remember correctly.

 

[Toneyz]

Is it just me, when replaying to a comment the dam site freezes and you end up posting the same message twice!

Yes, for some time now I thought it was only me!

 

[DPG]

Just to lighten things up a bit, what happened to the thread where the guy was openly offering cash for someone doing his course work ?? Has it been deleted?

 

[Bellendian]

Mods must have done a deal

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It wasn't really 'dropped' though, simply superceded by the requirement that all socket outlets below 20a require 30ma additional protection.
But the level of danger posed remains different as per the best practice guidance. That states c2 if kit likely to be used outdoors and c3 for other socket outlets if I remember correctly.

That’s probably where this confusion originates.
BS7671 no longer says “may reasonably be expected to supply portable equipment for use outdoors”.
It now says shall be provided for mobile equipment for use outdoors.
The requirement has shifted from the socket to the mobile equipment.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I think the server doesn’t have enough RAM.

 

[Upton Sparks]

Any reason why you dislike my post Anthony ?Please feel free to comment.

 

[Toneyz]

Any reason why you dislike my post Anthony ?Please feel free to comment.

Yes the reason was the same as DPG gave there is no discrimination between the two RCD's should a fault happen of say 35mA to one of the electrical items used in one of the rooms.

 

[Risteard]

not how people might use the installation.

How the installation is used is absolutely relevant.

 

[Risteard]

The requirement has shifted from the socket to the mobile equipment.

It really hasn't shifted. It has been enhanced to cover all socket-outlets. So you can't sensibly claim that the requirement has been removed.