Reasonable operation limitations in Domestic EICR? (Live testing only)

[Dartlec]

This old chestnut

Client decided they couldn't wait a few weeks for me to do an EICR so got someone 'off the internet' who immediately failed it (probably fairly, since its a house, with fuse wire protection on all circuits it appears).

Looking at the report for a second opinion and under operational limitations is:

"only live testing done due to fish tank not being allowed to being turned off" (sic)

and they carried out Zs only on all circuits (no idea if the fish tank also has lighting, boiler and cooker connections!)
Also didn't take rfc resistances for 2 different socket circuits, when I assume the fish tank is only connected to one....

Obviously this happens on commercial EICRs quite often where machines have to be left on, but is this a reasonable limitation on domestic cases? I'd say it's at least not in the spirit of the idea of EICRs as they are meant to be used for the domestic rental sector.

The report is probably reasonable otherwise, with a couple of arguable C2s but some clear ones too..

£710 quote for new CU and bathroom lights is not the worst rip off I've seen either - if a bit overkill since they've also done the report. (though depends if that is RCBO all circuits or Screwfix special)

I wouldn't consider a 'live testing only' certificate to be a reasonable test of a domestic electrical installation, but maybe others do?

 

[buzzlightyear]

post it, love seeing other carp paper work .

 

[buzzlightyear]

only live testing done due to fish tank not being allowed to being turned off

just in case the fish drowned.lol.

 

[123]

Does the fish tank have UPS or a backup generator?

If not what happens when they have a power cut?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Does the fish tank have UPS or a backup generator?

If not what happens when they have a power cut

fish and chip night.

 

[littlespark]

What’s going to happen to the poor fish when he comes to replace the CU?

 

[Dartlec]

post it, love seeing other carp paper work .

I've seen a lot worse to be fair - though always more fun to critic other paperwork than double check my own...

Not sure why the LIM for Ze though - not like they even did Zs at the board...

Bet the bathroom downlights are actually over 2.25m anyway, or not more than a C3 anyway

I'll go and take a look to ensure they haven't completely misread what's there - and then quote well under £710 for a consumer unit change which should solve any problems.

And since there are two socket circuits, they could surely have rigged something up to test both -
I'll have to try to rig something up for the poor fish when changing CU I guess ????

 

[Deleted account]

To be fair if client doesn’t want electric turned off. Then the inspector is stuck.
I did an EICR one and couldn’t turn of one of the consumer units to do dead testing because owner didn’t want his recording studio without power as he was doin* recordings.

this is dispite me telling him prior to arrival all power would be turned off .


what else can you do.

 

[Dartlec]

To be fair if client doesn’t want electric turned off. Then the inspector is stuck.
I did an EICR one and couldn’t turn of one of the consumer units to do dead testing because owner didn’t want his recording studio without power as he was doin* recordings.

this is dispite me telling him prior to arrival all power would be turned off .


what else can you do.

Most landlords seem surprised when I say I'll be there for 3-4 hours and that power will be off and on intermittently - I guess they are only used to the gas one which takes less time (but happens more often)

 

[loz2754]

I would agree I've seen worse reports.
Just a few comments:
I'm going to assume if it's a Wylex 3036 board that the cover cannot be removed if the fuses are in place. Hence the limitations on Ze and PFC.

Nominal voltage U should be not applicable, not 240 volts.

The extent says 100% testing and 25% visual inspection. How can it be 100% testing if no dead tests or Ze test are done? And how can accessories be inspected with the power still on?

How has insulation resistance testing been done with the power on? Results show >200 M ohms for every circuit.

Why is supplementary bonding not applicable, instead of being a C2 as there are no RCDs?

I'm sure others will find more.

I'll bet the price was the same as a full test.

 

[Deleted account]

Most landlords seem surprised when I say I'll be there for 3-4 hours and that power will be off and on intermittently - I guess they are only used to the gas one which takes less time (but happens more often)

Absolutely agree. Some people are amazed that you have to turn the power off at all to do an electrical job. Even just the circuit your working on.

one customer who wanted an extra socket didn’t want the sockets turned off as he would loose his internet connection. He said I should have warned him. !!

another customer asked if I could wait until her bread was finished in her bread making machine.

countless customers start there washing before I get to them or even just after I have arrived.

barmy

 

[Dartlec]

I would agree I've seen worse reports.
Just a few comments:
I'm going to assume if it's a Wylex 3036 board that the cover cannot be removed if the fuses are in place. Hence the limitations on Ze and PFC.

Nominal voltage U should be not applicable, not 240 volts.

The extent says 100% testing and 25% visual inspection. How can it be 100% testing if no dead tests or Ze test are done? And how can accessories be inspected with the power still on?

How has insulation resistance testing been done with the power on? Results show >200 M ohms for every circuit.

Why is supplementary bonding not applicable, instead of being a C2 as there are no RCDs?

I'm sure others will find more.

I'll bet the price was the same as a full test.

Good point on the reason for no Ze - that is likely why - hadn't considered that, though I doubt the fish would have asphyxiated if everything had been off for 1 minute to take the lid off.

The Nominal voltage and IR tests will be poor form checking - they are the defaults on Easycert - the nominal voltage was picked up by an NICEIC bod a few years back on one of my certificates so I'm careful to remove it now. >200 is the default setting if you don't change it I believe too..

I did notice the supp bonding inconsistency - it might just be there and not looked/tested for - (or possibly no extraneous parts), and that would resolve the C2 with RCD on bathroom lights - but I think a new CU is needed regardless...

 

[pc1966]

I know fish need their "life support" of heater (if tropical) and cleaning pump/filter, but from my memory of having fish as a child (as pets, not food sort) a tank can go for an hour or more with no real effects as it takes some time for the temperature to change by a serious amount.

Also what is the plan for a power cut?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Aren't fish tank aerators and heating on low voltage transformers?

 

[Dartlec]

Went to take a look at this job for a second opinion.

Report was accurate as far as it went - Wylex with plug in MCBs - house with garden, so new CU time.

Determined that the fish will be fine for a few hours during the chage.

However, the inspector managed to completely miss a garden garage with electrics, run in Pyro from somewhere...Any one able to guesstimate the sizing from the photo?



And also didn't look in the external meter cabinet it seems - and missed this rather nasty gaping wound in the fuse head. (With DNO for action)

 

[littlespark]

Looks like 2L1.5 to me.

 

[Vortigern]

This fish tank thing...when I posted the thread about that a couple of days ago I did not mention the set up. This was not just a fish tank with a heater in it. There were gas cylinders in a cupboard below the tank and other "things" don't know what they were. I was told if I switch of they will die rapidly because of the gas thing going on. Sorry to be so vague but I did not have a clue what I was dealing with. Thought it best to keep well away from any interference with it at all. He may have been exaggerating or telling the truth I don't know. But I could just sense if I did one thing wrong there would be trouble!

 

[littlespark]

This fish tank thing...when I posted the thread about that a couple of days ago I did not mention the set up. This was not just a fish tank with a heater in it. There were gas cylinders in a cupboard below the tank and other "things" don't know what they were. I was told if I switch of they will die rapidly because of the gas thing going on. Sorry to be so vague but I did not have a clue what I was dealing with. Thought it best to keep well away from any interference with it at all. He may have been exaggerating or telling the truth I don't know. But I could just sense if I did one thing wrong there would be trouble!

Still begs the question what happens if there’s a power cut?

 

[Micktw68]

Or where do the fish keep their gas bottles in the wild....do BOC deliver .

 

[littlespark]

Try and sell the fella a UPS system for his fishes.

Or tell him to get a proper pet that doesn’t need a life support system.

 

[Timbo]

I've seen a lot worse to be fair - though always more fun to critic other paperwork than double check my own...

Not sure why the LIM for Ze though - not like they even did Zs at the board...

Bet the bathroom downlights are actually over 2.25m anyway, or not more than a C3 anyway

I'll go and take a look to ensure they haven't completely misread what's there - and then quote well under £710 for a consumer unit change which should solve any problems.

And since there are two socket circuits, they could surely have rigged something up to test both -
I'll have to try to rig something up for the poor fish when changing CU I guess.

I love the BS3036 main switch.

I could supply an all RCBO board with SP and DP RCBO's and 2 blank ways for £260 on 30%GP + installation.

Ze lim, hard to pick up the phone to ask isn't it? By enquiry is an option.

 

[Dartlec]

I love the BS3036 main switch.

I could supply an all RCBO board with SP and DP RCBO's and 2 blank ways for £260 on 30%GP + installation.

Ze lim, hard to pick up the phone to ask isn't it? By enquiry is an option.

It gets better -

Only finally had a chance to work out the quote on this job and sat down to review the photos I took on my short site visit compared to the original "EICR"

The schedule on the EICR



The picture I took:



FFS

60898 MCBs not 3036 - 7 circuits, an additional stray circuit to smoke alarm and an 'outside light spur' which bears no relation to the board...

Not like they took the MCBs out and accidentally went by the colours of the shields either.

Now I honestly have no idea whether anything on the form can be trusted...

Stupid thing is they could have actually taken the front of the board off without turning things off if they'd really wanted to - and they clearly had no way of confirming the cable sizes without doing so.

This is a firm with NAPIT accreditation, trustmark and Checkatrade 'approved'.....

 

[westward10]

The 20A may be a 3871/2?

 

[Dartlec]

The 20A may be a 3871/2?

yes I think you're right - it's fairly clearly NOT a 15A 3036 though ?

Daft thing is that the report outcomes were more or less right (new consumer unit needed) - just that the schedule is clearly dodgy - maybe they expected to redo it when changing the board (£710 for board and 4 new lights in bathroom)

That's not a completely outrageous price, though a bit high for the area, depending if that was a £50 board or a £250 one - or indeed a certificate worth the paper it's written on!