regs for a kitchen

[kilty55]

hi all,just popped over from the tiling forum

i have 2 questions i need answered peeps hope you can help out

in a kitchen with integrated appliances do the isolation switches for each appliance need to be accesible i.e in a seperate cupboard or is it allowed to put the plugs behind each unit?

also i have a customer wanting a building control certificate,we did a kitchen and 2 bathroom installs,i wasnt aware we needed building control involved for a job like this as its not an extension simply a re fit

cheers yall jamie

 

[accordfire]

hi all,just popped over from the tiling forum

i have 2 questions i need answered peeps hope you can help out

in a kitchen with integrated appliances do the isolation switches for each appliance need to be accesible i.e in a seperate cupboard or is it allowed to put the plugs behind each unit?

also i have a customer wanting a building control certificate,we did a kitchen and 2 bathroom installs,i wasnt aware we needed building control involved for a job like this as its not an extension simply a re fit

cheers yall jamie

Hi Jamie

Any electrical work in a kitchen needs to be Part P certificated (Building Control) - that's what they'll be after. Same for bathrooms.

Strictly, in a kitchen for appliances, the standard set up is to fit an unswitched single socket behind the appliance, under the work top, and then a double pole switch (with neon indicator), or fused spur, above the counter.

The idea is that isolation is accessible and local to the appliance, without having to move it first.

If you need Part P certification for the job, there's two ways of doing that - a local Part P scheme registered guy who's willing to check your work and cert it, or the LABC themselves, which'll cost around £500 for one of their guys to come out and inspect.

 

[malcolmsanford]

All isolation switches must be accesible for isolataion and maintenace. Normally you would put either a double pole switch or a FCU above the counter top which would feed a normal 13amp BS 1363 single socket behind the appliance. You can put them in a cupboard as long as they fixed properly and you highlight this on your EIC.

All new work in a kitchen and bathroom needs to be notified under Part P. So you either have to notify the Local Building Control before the work is started or if your part of a self certification scheme then you can do it that way.

If it a case of notification by informing the the LBC then that is the responsibility of the customer, but most non schemed electricians will do it for them and put this on his/her costs

 

[kilty55]

hello accordfire,thanks for your speedy reply

sorry it was my contract i didnt actually carry out the electrical work,i used a certified electrician who is also a member of select.

i cant actually get hold of him i assume as its holiday time,

there are fused spurs for the applainces above the worktop on the splashback area and i think it is plugged in behind the oven as its integrated in a double tower unit,we put more plugs in actual cupboards but didnt want to place plugs in absolutely every cupboard so put some behind the appliances......was this wrong mate? the customer is saying it must be directly accesible incase the oven catches fire....so they can turn it off however i remember seeing lots of ovens hard wired direct to walls

 

[telectrix]

the sockets for the appliances do not need to be readily accessible as long as you have FCU or D/P switch for isolation.

 

[malcolmsanford]

hello accordfire,thanks for your speedy reply

sorry it was my contract i didnt actually carry out the electrical work,i used a certified electrician who is also a member of select.

i cant actually get hold of him i assume as its holiday time,

there are fused spurs for the applainces above the worktop on the splashback area and i think it is plugged in behind the oven as its integrated in a double tower unit,we put more plugs in actual cupboards but didnt want to place plugs in absolutely every cupboard so put some behind the appliances......was this wrong mate? the customer is saying it must be directly accesible incase the oven catches fire....so they can turn it off however i remember seeing lots of ovens hard wired direct to walls

As we have all said as long as you have a switch that is accessible for isolation and maintenace then you can put the sockets behind the appliances.

A CCU is not designed or required to be an emergency switch it is for isolation and maintenace and again it should be accessible. It is not good practice to put it in a cupboard but there are no electrical or building regs against this, the by word for this is accessible.

 

[kilty55]

hi all,ok i have just spoke to the sparky,he says the hobtop wich he installed has a fused spur with neon light to isolate it but the single oven is directly plugged into a socket which is housed behind the oven,he seems to think there is nothing worng with this.

is he correct lads or does this need moved to a cupboard by law

 

[kilty55]

sorry malcolm im a bit confused by what your saying,what is a ccu?

you say its not good practice to put a switch in a cupboard but there are no laws against it am i correct?

sorry for sounding daft guys but i dont know that much about electrics please bear with me

 

[telectrix]

it's better practice to fit isolators above worktops, but no regulation says not to fit in a cupboard, as long as they are accessible. it could be argued that hidden behind a stack of crockery or pans would render them inaccessible. personally, i would fit an isolator for the oven--- not too much work to modify before tiling.

 

[scotsparky]

If he is in Select i am guessing you may be in Scotland and part P is non applicable. However an local isolator above counter is good practice AS for supplying electrical test certification that is a requierment Not 100% sure about all the ins and outs as i do Commertial stuff.

 

[malcolmsanford]

CCU = Cooker Control Unit

There are all sorts of regs that can be fired off as to accessories being fitted to the fabric of the building and so on. Then you argue is a fixed kitchen that is attached to a wall classed as part of the fabric of the building and then you start another topic. Bottom line is that there is not a reg saying you can't fit a switch into a kitchen cupboard, it's just we try not to, but in some cases you can't avoid it.

 

[alectrician 1]

As i was led to beleive all accessories should be fixed to the fabric of the building right or wrong

 

[malcolmsanford]

As i was led to beleive all accessories should be fixed to the fabric of the building right or wrong

Spot on but who is to say that a kitchen cupboard that is fixed to a wall is not part of the fabric of the building. In such a way a fitted wardrobe is and you fit lights into it.

As is a stud partion that is added to divide a room, or plaster board to dry line a garage or basement, it's all a relative term "Fabric of the building"

The regs are not written to define what is classed as Fabric of a building, it's all open as usual to interpretation

 

[accordfire]

hello accordfire,thanks for your speedy reply

sorry it was my contract i didnt actually carry out the electrical work,i used a certified electrician who is also a member of select.

i cant actually get hold of him i assume as its holiday time,

there are fused spurs for the applainces above the worktop on the splashback area and i think it is plugged in behind the oven as its integrated in a double tower unit,we put more plugs in actual cupboards but didnt want to place plugs in absolutely every cupboard so put some behind the appliances......was this wrong mate? the customer is saying it must be directly accesible incase the oven catches fire....so they can turn it off however i remember seeing lots of ovens hard wired direct to walls

No probs - your guy will provide the required certification as soon as you can get hold of him (he has to as a condition of his scheme in any case).

No, the situation is right, so long as the oven is plugged into a socket controlled by the spur above - if he switches that off and the oven turns off, then it complies.

In the "olden" days, it used to be done with a big old cooker switch above, and more lately with smaller cooker switches above - and almost always with an outlet plate behind the cooker for the "big" bit of cable connecting to the cooker. There's not so much call for doing it that way these days, as ovens and cook tops have got much more efficient with the power they use.

It sounds all good though - and you just need the cert from your Select guy.

 

[kilty55]

ok lads from what you have all said its not good practice to fit plugs behind the actual cooker,but is it illegal to do so? wouldnt the cooker trip if it caught fire or the fuse blow?

i can get the socket moved to cupboard with a door so its accesible for them ,i need to know if it is legal to place the plugs where we have in the 1st instance though?