Ring final & Radial circuits off one mcb ?

[Soulsurfer]

Another straight forward job today has turned out to be a right mess once again so I thought I'd get some thoughts on the following before I start !

So an old MK LN59 board, feed to garage sockets on a single 2.5mm t&e from a 15A mcb and also spurred to feed a boiler on S plan,

Next ring final on a 30A feeding upstairs sockets as usual but on cover removal I found a 4mm t&e spurred from same 30A mcb and feeding opposite side of garage to sockets all on the 4mm then at the end spurred from last socket with 2.5mm t&e to feed new water cylinder via a DP switch !

Obviously I'm not happy with the 4mm being spurred as an extra circuit from a separate circuit pd but surely the immersion being spurred from sockets is rough too ?

Never seen anything like that before !

 

[Octopus]

We've been there before on this Dave my view won't change.

Not taking sides but I do agree with Dave!

At the end of the day you turn off 1 circuit breaker to isolate both cables... So that makes it 1 circuit.

If this is an EICR then it would be C3 with a recommendation to separate them out, space in the CU allowing

 

[westward10]

Not taking sides but I do agree with Dave!

At the end of the day you turn off 1 circuit breaker to isolate both cables... So that makes it 1 circuit.

If this is an EICR then it would be C3 with a recommendation to separate them out, space in the CU allowing

That is interesting that you C3 it as I do the same. Out of further interest how do you word it on the EICR.

 

[Octopus]

^^ word what?

 

[westward10]

^^ word what?

How you actually word the multiple circuits, or cables at one device on the Report recommendations.

 

[Ian1981]

Perhaps regulation 314.4 which calls for more than one final circuit to be connected to a separate way in a distribution board.
It may be that by definition it's one circuit but it's clear that there where no spare ways in the db so it just got shot in with a ring final circuit.
Admittedly it perhaps doesn't go against regulations

 

[Octopus]

How you actually word the multiple circuits, or cables at one device on the Report recommendations.

I would show 2 lines on the schedule of results for clarity.... And a note that they are both terminated at the same mcb

 

[westward10]

À note to separate them as a C3?

 

[Pat H]

Isn't it failing to provide diversity in case of failure? A RFC with as many outlets can only be on one MCB and if it trips they are all dead. But if you have 2 "feeds" to 2 sets of outlets at the CU then joining them into one MCB if failing to provide diversity between them.

 

[westward10]

How is that poor diversity.

 

[Pat H]

How is that poor diversity.

Well its not diverse at all. Its one circuit but could easily be 2 circuits. 2 circuits would offer diversity. 1 circuit doesn't.

 

[westward10]

Think you mean division of circuits.

 

[Risteard]

2 circuits would offer diversity (sic). 1 circuit doesn't.

That argument would only stand up if you were to claim that every socket outlet and luminaire should be on its own circuit. Otherwise you are accepting the fact that multiple accessories can be on one final circuit in spite of the potential inconvenience this might cause.

Also, what level of inconvenience will arise from a power cut? Does this really present much danger?

 

[Flanders]

Kind of agree that it is one circuit but would test it as two circuits and note both on the report after all you have 2 end point which will have 2 sets of reading , I supposed you could record just the highest reading , but has I have done all the test I like to write them down , I had some the other day with 2 ring finals in 1 MCB (4 cables) or is that a figure of 8 ring final ??? as it happens one of the rings was not continues due to alterations so a right old mess , Back to the OP it sound like its just ruff but not dangerous, unless the cables are not terminated very well due them being different sizes in the same terminal as others have suggested,
PS How do you agree/like a post ???

 

[Risteard]

What exactly do you dislike about my post (#27) westward10?

 

[westward10]

Sorry Risteard didn't even realise I had done that, gone now