Safety zone valve to cylinder

[chris murphy]

Hi Elrick
I dont know of the top of my head about the cylinder, i think it is a builder center's own brand it is about 5ft tall with a single immersion element, do you have a wiring diagram on how it is incorporated in the 1-10 choc block.
Many thanks
Feebs73

"Hello again feebs 73",

JUST to make sure that You are asking about an `INDIRECT` Unvented Hot Water Cylinder - regarding your description above [which I have just noticed] - have I been correct in My assumption that there IS a Flow and Return from the Heating System connected to the Unvented Cylinder to Heat the Hot Water via the Cylinder Coil ?

I have been answering You on that assumption because it would be impossible to Heat an Unvented or a Vented Cylinder to meet the needs of a property with `3 Ensuite Bathrooms / Shower Rooms` using an Immersion Heater - unless the Bathing / Showering was being done at different times for each Bathroom.

Even with the Flow and Return from the Boiler it might not be capable of `recovering` the Hot Water temperature quick enough for perhaps 3 consecutive Showers [?] - But that is not your problem.

I assume that You just mean that it ALSO has an Immersion Heater fitted - But will primarily be Heated by the Boiler / Heating Flow and Returns ?

IF NOT - then I have written a LOT of `Non Applicable` Information in My replies to You !


Regards,


Chris

 

[feebs73]

Hi chris
the 5 bedroom 3 ensuite job was a different one to the origanal posting regarding the 3rd zone valve( safety valve), I was just asking about the 5 bed job because in my eyes it is the same s plan just on a bigger version than the origanal post, but does not have the safety valve that has been mentioned before.
many thanks feebs73

 

[chris murphy]

Hi chris
the 5 bedroom 3 ensuite job was a different one to the origanal posting regarding the 3rd zone valve( safety valve), I was just asking about the 5 bed job because in my eyes it is the same s plan just on a bigger version than the origanal post, but does not have the safety valve that has been mentioned before.
many thanks feebs73

"Hello again feebs 73",


Sorry that I misunderstood Your Post on this thread - I thought that You were just trying to get the information by rewording the question.

I am a bit confused by the title of THIS thread - `Re: Safety zone valve to cylinder` - what are You asking about HERE ?


Also did You read My VERY Long message to You on the `other` thread about the `Safety / Thermal Cut Out`wiring / and example Wiring Diagram for the Unvented Cylinder`s Zone Valve ?


Regards,

Chris

 

[chris murphy]

You don't need 3 zone valves. You just need to wire the hot water tank zone valve supply in series with the tank stat. You only need a safety zone valve if you are using a Y plan system (i.e a mid position valve or three port valve), in this case the 2 port zone valve is connected in the primary flow to the hot water cylinder and again the zone valve supply is wired via the tank stat.

"Hello JD Hogg",

On an Unvented Indirect Hot Water Cylinder the Two Port Zone Valve operation MUST also be wired to the Thermal Overheat Thermostat / `High Limit Thermostat` fitted to the Unvented Cylinder - If this ever operates it interupts the power to the Zone Valve which then closes via the spring return.

This obviously stops the Heat circulation to the Unvented Cylinder Coil and prevents further Overheating and possible Over-pressurisation of the Unvented Cylinder in the event that the Pressure and Temperature Relief Valve malfunctioned and did NOT release the Over-pressurisation - which although unlikely is possible.

Regards,

Chris - Heating Engineer

 

[chris murphy]

Hi chris
the 5 bedroom 3 ensuite job was a different one to the origanal posting regarding the 3rd zone valve( safety valve), I was just asking about the 5 bed job because in my eyes it is the same s plan just on a bigger version than the origanal post, but does not have the safety valve that has been mentioned before.
many thanks feebs73

"Hello again feebs 73",


Have You seen My latest messages to You on the other thread ?

Also - having read your comment above - is the Underfloor Heating in the same property as the Unvented Hot Water Cylinder / `3 Zones Valves` thread that We have been corresponding about ?

If not - I feel that You confused matters when You mentioned the description about the `5 Bedroom - 3 Ensuites - Underfloor Heating to the Ground Floor` etc. during the correspondence about the Unvented Hot Water Cylinder / `3 Zone Valves` thread - although obviously unwittingly - I thought You were describing the Job that We were writing about ?

Until NOW [having read your comment above] I have thought that this was the SAME Job / Heating System / Wiring enquiry - ?


What I have written on the ORIGINAL thread about the S Plan Plus and the Thermal Protection / `High Limit Thermostat of the Unvented Hot Water Cylinder would still be fully applicable - BUT - I have been involved in a slight `debate` with another Member about the `Ground Floor Underfloor Heating` being wired seperately to the S Plan Plus wiring plan.

IF it is NOT installed in the property that we first started corresponding about I would NOT have kept mentioning it and trying to elicit responses including the wiring for that on Your behalf from the other Members.

Could You please clarify this point - "Thanks".


Regards,

Chris

 

[feebs73]

Hi Chris
This is my fault, yes there are two jobs that i am talking about
1, is the standard s plan with the extra zone valve (on the hw) fitted to the cylinder, ( so called safety valve) this one is causing the debate.
2, this is another job I have to wire up this is a s plan plus,3 storey house, ground floor is UFH 1st floor has a separate zone valve and stat , 2nd floor has a separate zone valve and stat,

The confusion is I was asking, as they are both s plans pressurised systems, I was woundering why job 2 has not got 2 zone valve attached to the cylinder just the 1, when I asked the plumber he said no you only fit them on a mid position valve Y plan. He than showed me the ( forgive me but It looks like a over flow witch had 2x15mm pipe into 2inch plastic waste pipe) and said that deals with any excess pressure.

I was asking for help as I have never come across this extra zone valve on the hw system (safety valve) before if it is such an important part of the install why cant I find it on any wiring diagram? I would of thought it would of been easy to find it. Even the diagram you posted didn't have the extra have it on there.

I started the other thread to see if I could catch anyone's attention, sorry for the confusion.

I hope this clears things up a bit

I would like to thank everyone personally that is taking time to read these threads and replying to me

Thanks once again all the advise is much appreciated, feebs73

 

[feebs73]

Hi Chris
This is my fault, yes there are two jobs that i am talking about
1, is the standard s plan with the extra zone valve (on the hw) fitted to the cylinder, ( so called safety valve) this one is causing the debate.
2, this is another job I have to wire up this is a s plan plus,3 storey house, ground floor is UFH 1st floor has a separate zone valve and stat , 2nd floor has a separate zone valve and stat,

The confusion is I was asking, as they are both s plans pressurised systems, I was woundering why job 2 has not got 2 zone valve attached to the cylinder just the 1, when I asked the plumber he said no you only fit them on a mid position valve Y plan. He than showed me the ( forgive me but It looks like a over flow witch had 2x15mm pipe into 2inch plastic waste pipe) and said that deals with any excess pressure.

I was asking for help as I have never come across this extra zone valve on the hw system (safety valve) before if it is such an important part of the install why cant I find it on any wiring diagram? I would of thought it would of been easy to find it. Even the diagram you posted didn't have the extra zone valve on there.

I started the other thread to see if I could catch anyone's attention, sorry for the confusion.

I hope this clears things up a bit

I would like to thank everyone personally that is taking time to read these threads and replying to me

Thanks once again all the advise is much appreciated, feebs73

Missed a bit sorry

 

[snowhead]

On an unvented installation there must be a 2 port valve, spring assisted fail to closed position, (not motored closed) wired via the cylinder overtemp stat to prevent over heating of the cylinder.

The manufacturer has to provide this as part of the kit supplied with the cylinder, the manufacturers instructions will say a 2 port valve must be fitted.

The confusion arises when the cylinder is piped up.

If the heating system already has a 2 port valve on the flow to the cylinder, as long as this is wired via the overtemp stat on the cylinder and is spring closed, it will comply. 2nd 2 port valve is not required.

If it has a 3 port (mid position) valve there must be a 2 port fitted as well because the 3port can fail open.

Plumbers /heating engineers will sometimes not look at the whole picture and just see that a 2 port has to be fitted close to the cylinder.

Tried to make this a simple explanation, but it won't work.

 

[diditrain]

I have seen a diagram in a pdf but i have not got a clue on how to upload it for you.

Page 6. Might be what you are looking for
http://www.albionwaterheaters.com/pdfs/technical/ultrasteel.pdf

 

[snowhead]

Using the diagram in here;

http://www.plumbcenter.co.uk/wcssto...all/ti/on/Center_Centerstore_Installation.pdf

Fig 8, connect the 2nd 2 port valve in parallel with the zone valve at Junction box terminal 8 (L) and 2 (N)

 

[feebs73]

I have seen a diagram in a pdf but i have not got a clue on how to upload it for you.

Hi diditrain
Can you give the website address or anywhere where you found it
Thanks feebs63

 

[diditrain]

Look at my post 24, website details

 

[feebs73]

Using the diagram in here;

http://www.plumbcenter.co.uk/wcssto...all/ti/on/Center_Centerstore_Installation.pdf

Fig 8, connect the 2nd 2 port valve in parallel with the zone valve at Junction box terminal 8 (L) and 2 (N)

Thanks snowhead
it is a Honeywell zone valve (sorry for my ignorance) but what do I do with the 5th core.
? Do I just choc block it and make safe
thanks feebs73

- - - Updated - - -

Look at my post 24, website details

Got it cheers

 

[feebs73]

Look at my post 24, website details

Thanks diditrain, did you mean the wiring diagram at the top of page 16 if so I only see the one zone valve for the hw side
thanks73

 

[feebs73]

Thanks diditrain, did you mean the wiring diagram at the top of page 16 if so I only see the one zone valve for the hw side
thanks73

I ment page 6 sorry