Should those seeking Fast Track routes into the trade be belittled ?

[SparksWill Fly]

I seems that resentment, ego and selfishness are at play on some construction trade related forums when ever the question of fast track courses pops up. Again on "some" forums, i get a sense of..

"I had to do such and such, so i don't even care if the fast track course was any good anyway. Or even if it's the only option some folk have because i had to go through this certain method, so therefore everybody else should have to, I don't care if my comments put folks off wanting to do well for themselves, even if fast track is their only option, because my own ego and selfishness is more important than their life"

Of course no one would ever admit that the reason they say such and such comment is because they are stroking their ego and are selfish, they will just say that it simply has to do with their concern as to the quality of workmanship that folks have after completing fast track courses. And I'm sure this is true for some, but even for those whos opinion is based solely on the quality of the workmanship of a "fast-tracker" they should still be considerate of the fact that other folks are entitled to become tradesmen just as much as they are, only they don't have the same available options you have/had in order to get there. But certain other users who post on construction forums (i'm not just picking on this forum but any tradesman related forum) I feel, post comments simply with an intent to be negative in a way that mirrors what i explained above with regards to "Resentment" "Ego" "Selfishness"

 

[DurhamSparky]

At the end the qualifications will be Part P, BS2382, 2377 and 2392.

BS what????

Likewise if NICEIC are registering dangerous electricians...

its been known!!!

As for the bit about the money. The course I'm looking at will cost £7200, not exactly cheap is it?

OMG!!!! you are so been ripped off matey!!!

 

[Thomas123]

"Oh I'm so sorry... Am I supposed to feel guilty for wanting to get myself into a career the only way I can?

The course I am looking at doing is NOT a 5 week fast track.

It will involve:

700+ hours of theory
200 hours practical teaching (exactly as you'd get from a sparks on site, except that the sparks there are ONLY there to teach, not trying to get a job done as well)

At the end the qualifications will be Part P, BS2382, 2377 and 2392.

If City and Guilds qualifications are going to people who are dangerously incompetent, then the complaints should be directed at them surely? Not the poor sod who has studied hard and does the job to the best of their ability. Likewise if NICEIC are registering dangerous electricians...

As for the bit about the money. The course I'm looking at will cost £7200, not exactly cheap is it?"

Exactly.

I was just thinking about this before. I think its more to do with peoples own selfishness than their problem with skill level/workmanship. If you know sparks who do courses then go on site and do dangerous jobs then report them, or even better (though unlikely given the nature of you people) help them.

if your going to do that many hours and spend that much money then why dont you do it properly? get your 2330 level 2 and 3 (unsure what the new course is going to be called, 17th, 2391. Then when you find employment start your nvq.

 

[millwall ken]

im thinking about starting my own course advertiseing "become a fast track teacher and earn 200k in your first year" see how they like it.

LOL... Love it, sign me up too.

 

[millwall ken]

Re: How do I get into the trade?

i was unable to survive on an apprentice wage so i work 2 jobs end of story there was no way i wanted to sell myself to the highest bidder who wanted my 6 grand...so i kept it in my pocket and got it at my local college for free

Snap... I didn't have the opportunity to do an apprenticeship as a 16 year old because I chose to go down another route when I left school, it was only the fact that I was forced to leave that job when I was 20 that I started doing various labouring jobs on site. And to be honest I wouldn't have had a hope in hell of getting an apprenticeship then because I didn't leave school with a single GCSE. Anyway, when I eventually discovered 'electricity' I was hooked. Now the snag... Kids came along rapidly, and 'oh hell I was still only working as an electrician's mate/labourer/gofor' etc. So I took the decision to get my butt into college and get qualified - fortunately I had a great employer then who allowed me to do college full time (3 days a week) and still let me work for him on the other 3 or 4 days in the week. Yes things were tough - working away, no money etc but these things had to be done. Anyway I'm nearly there now as I have my tech certs, 17th ed, 2391 and just need an employer to take me on so that I can do my NVQ 3. Thats my two cents worth.

 

[millwall ken]

Which course ? have you ever been on one ? they don't train you at courses ? surely the standard is there to ensure a necessary level of competence ? and therefore can only be passed if the standard is met ?



So the guys who teach on these Fast-Track courses are not experienced ?



You can absolutely guarantee this ? and do Fast-Trackers have a track record of harming people ? and if so more so than those who did apprenticeships ?



Can you explain why in detail that you think this ?

To sum up your opinion. You think those who don't have the apprenticeship route available to them shouldn't attempt to become and electrician ?

Well then i would say, if those are the thoughts of (up them selves) sparkies then i don't care what you think I'm going to do Fast-Track anyway, just because you got that lucky break to go the apprenticeship route, doesn't in my opinion give you the right to tell others they shouldn't become electricians.

If you say "pull the rope up Jack, me and my fellow sparks who went the apprentice route are ok" then i don't care what you think.

If you think i should only become a sparky if i can get trained up by you or 1 of your other stuck up "apprenticeship route" buddies, but then you tell me tough luck there's no apprenticeships. And you leave it at that. Then you can go get stuffed i don't care what you and your cronies think as rightly so.

It's seems pretty obvious that the issue is selfish people who don't want anymore sparkies coming on board their nice little bubble.

If it was simply an issue with quality of workmanship then why aren't you all offering to help out in stead of just trying to put down Fast-Trackers. "REFER BACK TO MY FIRST POST FOR THE ANSWER"

Good for you son, go do your 5 day course or whatever it is, and when you kill someone because of your lack of experience and knowledge; then you WILL go to jail. End of.
Malcolm is one of the most knowledgeable blokes on this forum and is often the voice of reason in a sometimes very heated debating arena, and you choose to just be an ignorant **** who refuses to take on board the views of someone who was sparking whilst you were probably still a sperm. You have shown that you are too immature to engage in any sort of adult debate. So run along and watch CBBC.

 

[madmac]

just to throw a wee wobbley one in here how do the JIB/SJIB ( supposed governers of the trade) grade 5 week guys? my gold approved card has "Approved apprenticeship" along with my other qualifications

SJIB DON'T RECOGNISE THESE COURSES AT ALL mogga, BUT THE JIB DO!!!! AND THEY WILL ISSUE A GRADE CARD ON COMPLETION!!! i WAS TOLD THIS BY THE SJIB.

 

[RWJ]

SJIB DON'T RECOGNISE THESE COURSES AT ALL mogga, BUT THE JIB DO!!!! AND THEY WILL ISSUE A GRADE CARD ON COMPLETION!!! i WAS TOLD THIS BY THE SJIB.

Really..... That's outrageous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[manda]

Wow, As another forum member who is myself doing a course via one of the training companies I feel I have to say something here. To the original poster; I am seriously confused as to how you come to the conclusion that peoples attitudes are egotistical, selfish etc. Take a look on the forum day in day out and see the help these guys give to people, irrespective of how they are going about getting into the industry. Yes, there is bad feeling, not towards yourself, or myself, or anyone else personally, but towards the Companies out there that have seen an opportunity to make big bucks and in the process, water down the quality of work out there done by people calling themselves an Electrician. Like it or not, at the end of our courses, me and you may well not have the experience that an apprentice served spark does. The onus is then on us to decide if we fancy going setting up straight away on our own as joe blogs electrical, or if we think best to work for someone to gain the experience. I promise you this much, a lot will have gone out there and set up, after finishing the course, and genuinely believe themselves to be competent enough to go out there and basically be responsible for the safety of peoples lives. Plenty of them I'll wager have walked away unbeknown to even themselves, and made mistakes that are enough to actually endanger those lives. On the other hand, these guys have gone to college for years, served as apprentices etc and have a much more hands on knowledge. So if they feel uneasy or resentful towards the fast track schemes, do you not maybe think they have reason to be other than just being jealous you're going to do a few exams faster than they did?
From the word go with your original post on the thread, you have basically insulted people. Maybe instead of dissecting the attitudes of those who don't give you the answers you want to hear, you should take a long hard look at your own attitude? I by no means wish to upset or dishearten you, however you chose to get into the industry. But take advice for what it is, from people who are generous enough to take the time to give it, and be mature enough to accept it without thinking everyone's out to get you.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Wow, a proper can of worms have opened here. In my wildest dreams i cannot see how anyone can become an electrician in a few weeks (or any other trade for that matter). There will always be training facilities who will advertise and charge some extortionate fee's for these courses, and there will always be people who will enrol on them. Teaching someone the theory of being an Electrician is easy, but teaching someone experience is impossible. This is why most sparks have done a few years in apprenticeships. the benefit of this route is that you gain experience as you learn the trade, so when you are qualified you have a few years experience as well.

If someone comes out at the end of these courses, even with all the qualifications, then they will still be unemployable due to lack of experience. I cant imagine anyone taking on a fully qualified spark with NO experience, unless maybe a Mr Electric franchise.

Cheers.........Howard

 

[Des 56]

The post by manda

With such contensious attitudes from one extreem to the other, she has responded with the voice of reason, and common sense

She will no doubt be successfull in her efforts, and deserves to be so with her realistic view on these matters
Well done Manda and remember that this forum will always be here to assist you as you progress

 

[Paul.M]

Well said Manda, that's the best reply on this thread from the person that knows what it is like on this forum as a distant learner. Your feet are on the ground and your head in the books. As Des says above, success will follow.

 

[madmac]

Wow, a proper can of worms have opened here. In my wildest dreams i cannot see how anyone can become an electrician in a few weeks (or any other trade for that matter). There will always be training facilities who will advertise and charge some extortionate fee's for these courses, and there will always be people who will enrol on them. Teaching someone the theory of being an Electrician is easy, but teaching someone experience is impossible. This is why most sparks have done a few years in apprenticeships. the benefit of this route is that you gain experience as you learn the trade, so when you are qualified you have a few years experience as well.

If someone comes out at the end of these courses, even with all the qualifications, then they will still be unemployable due to lack of experience. I cant imagine anyone taking on a fully qualified spark with NO experience, unless maybe a Mr Electric franchise.

Cheers.........Howard

SirKit: I agree with you if these guys are trying to get a job on a construction site, but as has been said hundreds of times on here, these chancers are wiring and fault finding in ordinary persons households! There is no way the householders knows if they are fully competent, qualified and vetted electricians or 5 week wonder "Domestic Installers"! and as I said before, with the JIB now issuing grade cards to them it only validates their unscrupulous entry into what is a very complicated and dangerous industry compared with I.T. where a lot of these guys for some reason or another seem to be crawling from!!!

 

[SPARTYKUS]

manda - GREAT post

 

[Pv dude]

As an ex tutor (from a fast track company and yes I left and was not pushed) I believe that the industry is becoming dumb down, these courses are written with one thing in mind, how do we get these students to pay as much as they can afford and teach them for as little time as we can to get them through the exams. At no point during my time with that company was there any thought given to the quality of trades people we were creating or whether the course was suited to them or not. During my time there you would not believe the things I saw and in a way was party too.

I believe that WE as an industry should make a stand, Dont employ anyone that does not have a JIB grading of electrician or approved electrician, Lobby your compotant person scheme providers, write to the Joint industry board, Contact the IET. I know that the domestic installers type qualifications have been modified after concerns by these bodies were voiced to mirror the nvq and require site assessments. Hopefully this will remove the chancers.

And just to be clear I have no problem with people re training how ever they MUST PROVE they can do the job prior to setting up on their own or being left to their own....

 

[Pv dude]

Whos to say they havent been on site for the past 5 years saving up to do the course??

Unlikely as an ex tutor of one of these company's most students had very little practical experience prior to joining the course and to be honest very little on completion (but being individuals there were some rising stars and I have keep in touch with those) but on the hole the standard of competency was shocking.

These training providers should be on rouge traders along with their students.
Only my point of view but I believe almost all persons that complete these courses and set up in business for themselves on completion of the course contravene the BS7671. As it defines a competent person as someone who possess technical knowledge,practical skills and experience for the nature of electrical work undertaken Blah blah blah. So when did they get the experience (not surely in those silly little bays clipping cable to a chip board wall).

Having seen both sides I would never employ anyone that completed one of these course unless they could show at least 12 months practical experience and even then they would be monitored very closely.

I have absolutely no problem with retraining but there has to be a better way, why has every thing got to be so rushed? Why is it all about how quick you can get your 'Part P license to print money' as one company advertises it? Surely its better to learn and digest the information, practice those new skills and develop as a tradesman. One last thing would you want someone to change the brakes on your family car after a quick demo on it then a lecture on the VOSA regulations. I think not.