Should those seeking Fast Track routes into the trade be belittled ?

[SparksWill Fly]

I seems that resentment, ego and selfishness are at play on some construction trade related forums when ever the question of fast track courses pops up. Again on "some" forums, i get a sense of..

"I had to do such and such, so i don't even care if the fast track course was any good anyway. Or even if it's the only option some folk have because i had to go through this certain method, so therefore everybody else should have to, I don't care if my comments put folks off wanting to do well for themselves, even if fast track is their only option, because my own ego and selfishness is more important than their life"

Of course no one would ever admit that the reason they say such and such comment is because they are stroking their ego and are selfish, they will just say that it simply has to do with their concern as to the quality of workmanship that folks have after completing fast track courses. And I'm sure this is true for some, but even for those whos opinion is based solely on the quality of the workmanship of a "fast-tracker" they should still be considerate of the fact that other folks are entitled to become tradesmen just as much as they are, only they don't have the same available options you have/had in order to get there. But certain other users who post on construction forums (i'm not just picking on this forum but any tradesman related forum) I feel, post comments simply with an intent to be negative in a way that mirrors what i explained above with regards to "Resentment" "Ego" "Selfishness"

 

[mattmoo1974]

Wise words being spoken at last

 

[RWJ]

jason do you know when this is coming into place hopefully not before i sign up so they are moving the goal posts again i see

They were talking about bringing it in July / August time I think I read.

City and Guilds have now extended the 2356 till July 2012 so still time!!
So also reading they're bringing in a new C&G (more money for C&G) for those without NVQ or the necessary quals

 

[Thomas123]

yes they should be, its a joke and makes a mockery of all the people who have done an apprenticeship. after 6 month you know absolutely nothing trust me! These fast track courses and this part p have killed our trade and drove down the prices. Only an electrician should be doing electrical work, not a kitchen fitter who's done a 5 day course who thinks its ok put a cooker supply in 2.5. i cant wait until they get rid of it.

 

[DNS1]

What qualifications do you actually get after a 5 day course?

Surely not the 2382 that I thought was the minimum needed? The distance learning course I'm looking at estimates you can only get that after 300+ hours of theory work and 3 weeks practical training. And you have to pass the assesment of course (surely people are NOT passing if they think it's ok to send a 2.5mm supply to a cooker?)

On the subject of experience, surely kitchen fitters will have picked up a fair bit of knowledge about construction, building regs, making good etc... One of the reasons the intensive courses were criticised a few pages back was because they don't teach these things.

 

[alarm man]

not everyone has the luxury of a jib apprenticeship,even more so now,i did and left soon after,so when i see people like brucelee,sparky and phil giving up there own time and money to train to be what i got for free i feel a bit humble to be honest, so dont knock these lads these are the lads who want to do things right and are/will be good sparks without the electrical snobbery that goes with it...thats my 2p worth anyway..

 

[bugsy]

I think this threads going off at a tangent, no one's saying that people like Brucelee ( and I respect what he's done ) who have been in the industry and done the time wont be good time served sparks, my comments in general are aimed at those who without any previous experiance or knoledge of the industry expect be quilified and able to walk into a job after a fast track course

 

[alarm man]

I think this threads going off at a tangent, no one's saying that people like Brucelee ( and I respect what he's done ) who have been in the industry and done the time wont be good time served sparks, my comments in general are aimed at those who without any previous experiance or knoledge of the industry expect be quilified and able to walk into a job after a fast track course

i dont think any fast track will be expecting to run his own business after a few weeks,its an intensive course where those who dont take it in fall behind,i done a 3 yr one at at leisurely pace which included day release and days at college where we done life classes as part of a jib course this included how to manage money and dont go out and get peed every weekend,im sure they could have skipped those bits as thats what everyone did.

 

[Paul.M]

not everyone has the luxury of a jib apprenticeship,even more so now,i did and left soon after,so when i see people like brucelee,sparky and phil giving up there own time and money to train to be what i got for free i feel a bit humble to be honest, so dont knock these lads these are the lads who want to do things right and are/will be good sparks without the electrical snobbery that goes with it...thats my 2p worth anyway..

Phil, brucelee and myself are all from the same mould, working away from the industry whilst in college, self funded. I know both of them very well and I can say with hand in heart that they have had it harder than me, hats off to them and both of them have never said a bad word against the short course or the time served lads on here. Good things will happen to you two because you've worked hard for it.

 

[morph]

you're a top bloke Brucelee, keep going and dont let them grind you down
total respect !

 

[brucelee]

Dont worry mate they havnt beat me yet they just keep moving the goal posts lol
after the 2330 lv3 and the nvq 2356 LV3 then i want to do the 2391-20 and the 2399 then as far as i know thats it until the 18th comes in or some other qualification i havnt heard or know of
I am going to have to get me skates on and register with elecsa before they move the goals again to suit there pockets at the IET , C&G and the governments back handers

 

[morph]

all the competant person scheems want us to join so they will never make it too hard, they need our money!
as for the 18 th well we all have to deal with the constant updates, would be nice if stuff stayed the same and we could just get old and forget about college , ha ha

 

[SparksWill Fly]

"Oh I'm so sorry... Am I supposed to feel guilty for wanting to get myself into a career the only way I can?

The course I am looking at doing is NOT a 5 week fast track.

It will involve:

700+ hours of theory
200 hours practical teaching (exactly as you'd get from a sparks on site, except that the sparks there are ONLY there to teach, not trying to get a job done as well)

At the end the qualifications will be Part P, BS2382, 2377 and 2392.

If City and Guilds qualifications are going to people who are dangerously incompetent, then the complaints should be directed at them surely? Not the poor sod who has studied hard and does the job to the best of their ability. Likewise if NICEIC are registering dangerous electricians...

As for the bit about the money. The course I'm looking at will cost £7200, not exactly cheap is it?"

Exactly.

I was just thinking about this before. I think its more to do with peoples own selfishness than their problem with skill level/workmanship. If you know sparks who do courses then go on site and do dangerous jobs then report them, or even better (though unlikely given the nature of you people) help them.

 

[Paul.M]

We help people every day at every level so that's a bit unfair what you've said.

You asked for peoples opinion on this subject and you don't like some of the opinions.

Good luck in your course, I wish you all the best and post up anything that you don't fully understand and we will help you with it.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Are you telling us that the course you have outlined above is going to take you nearly 18 weeks at 8 hours a day 5 days a week for just the theory alone, when it is a domestic installers course that takes 5 weeks according to most training centres.

All you going to get is 2382-20 Which is the 17th which is at most 4 days
2377 Which is the PAT course 1 day
Part P Which is not normally exam driven 1 day
2392 Which is Inspection and Testing 4 Days

Which is 88 hours of theory ..................are you not going to get anything else ??

 

[sparky1502]

No one has mentioned the fact that entry requirements on to a scheme will be tightened up for new applicants soon.

I cant remember exactly but i think it was based on NVQ3?

the new course is 80% site based with no fewer than 6 onsite visits which will covers a range of disciplines including testing and inspecting and fault finding and rectification. welcome to the end of intensive courses