Should those seeking Fast Track routes into the trade be belittled ?

[SparksWill Fly]

I seems that resentment, ego and selfishness are at play on some construction trade related forums when ever the question of fast track courses pops up. Again on "some" forums, i get a sense of..

"I had to do such and such, so i don't even care if the fast track course was any good anyway. Or even if it's the only option some folk have because i had to go through this certain method, so therefore everybody else should have to, I don't care if my comments put folks off wanting to do well for themselves, even if fast track is their only option, because my own ego and selfishness is more important than their life"

Of course no one would ever admit that the reason they say such and such comment is because they are stroking their ego and are selfish, they will just say that it simply has to do with their concern as to the quality of workmanship that folks have after completing fast track courses. And I'm sure this is true for some, but even for those whos opinion is based solely on the quality of the workmanship of a "fast-tracker" they should still be considerate of the fact that other folks are entitled to become tradesmen just as much as they are, only they don't have the same available options you have/had in order to get there. But certain other users who post on construction forums (i'm not just picking on this forum but any tradesman related forum) I feel, post comments simply with an intent to be negative in a way that mirrors what i explained above with regards to "Resentment" "Ego" "Selfishness"

 

[Sintra]

TBH you don't learn a trade on one of these fast track courses you only learn the basics. Not meaning to offend anyone but to learn this trade takes years, i'm at it 26 years and still learning.

 

[bugsy]

you are able to gain an apprenticeship.....im 28 and i got one with full college funding. the truth is some people dont want to attend college for 3 years because i cant afford it or i have kids and a wife...well so what! my dad said if something is easy everyone will do it and its true once they condenced the course in to 6 weeks they fill the courses up because these wanna be sparks what a quick fix....I love the trade im in and i work 6 days a week just so me and my family can survive untill im done at college yes its tough and tiring and yes i miss my family but the good will out! u cannot learn a trade in 6 chuffin weeks think back to the old apprenticeships 4 and 5 years long why because they learned to do the job right!

You will come out this an electrician - NOT a tin plate tony well done -

 

[bugsy]

TBH you don't learn a trade on one of these fast track courses you only learn the basics. Not meaning to offend anyone but to learn this trade takes years, i'm at it 26 years and still learning.

Sintra Im 52 and started doing lift off's from drawings with my dad when I was 13 , started getting stuffed under floor boards when I was 14 and got promoted to changing high bay fittings when I was 15 Im still learning

 

[Adam W]

The idea behind the 'fast track' courses was that people who had been on site for years and knew the job inside out could get the bits of paper they needed to prove that, however the courses have been abused by greedy training providers who sell the idea that anyone can change career and be an electrician with little or no practical experience; reading about it in a book is no substitute.

It seems anyone who knows which wires to put where in a plugtop thinks they can be an electrican, and nobody considers themself a 'cowboy' regardless of how little they don't even realise they don't know.
It doesn't matter if you were previously a nuclear physicyst, flew concorde or managed an IT consultancy - what you need is to know how to do electrical work; likewise the need for money because you've got children doesn't even come into it - do you think the customer cares if you've got mouths to feed?

I couldn't get an apprenticeship when I was the right age for one so I had to train later in life as well, but I certainly didn't do the 'fast track route' (if anything I took the 'slow track' which I still haven't finished) by doing my 3 years at college and working as a 'mate' on site doing the rubbish jobs nobody else wanted to do and gaining practical experiance along the way.

It hasn't got anything to do with "Resentment" "Ego" or "Selfishness" unless they are what you consider the feelings towards people who are unwittingly sullying the image of a professional trade.

 

[DurhamSparky]

just to add the final snatch into my mix

to upset the 5 days who though they had DS on there side!

I Completed a Marine Engineering Apprenticeship with the Navy in eletro mechanical which took me 2 Fecking Years! 23H a day when deployed at sea to LEARN the trade!! my elec quals are all add ons i paid for my self as navy would NOT accredit me until i got promoted which never happened!! and i have got a BTEC level 3 in electrical installation (on par with 2330) and the world reknowned NVQ 3 to supplement it...!

i used to fault find on 12v to 440v more or less every day as the stuff we used was crap and old...!!

my only flaw when i entered the Civvy market was best practices to do things "i.e downlights, lifting floorboards correctly so they will relay, chasing walls effectively and making good" im still learing new tricks that i would have picked up from a sparky if i was an apprentice but HEY!!!

office boys stick to what you know best and sharpen them pencils while we fix the dodgy light you fitted from B&Q prior to getting a Blowy from ya missus cause she likes a real man!! lol...


only kidding!!! LOL.... i shag them instead!!

 

[Adam W]

im thinking about starting my own course advertiseing "become a fast track teacher and earn 200k in your first year" see how they like it.

I can sell you a distance learning course to teach you how to go about doing that. It's basically a self hypnosis CD which you play when you're asleep. You can do it in a night, then do a multiple guess test for your certificate.
It's £25k for the 'course' where you can get rich quick selling courses teaching people how to get rich quick by selling people courses to get rich quick with a rewarding new career.
It's a lucrative yet untapped market.

 

[Des 56]

We have yet another fast track debate,so I thought it a bit ironic to include this link to a sparks 1 week temporary job I saw on the dole site

Why I thought to include it herein this debate was the job description

"Will include all aspects of electrical installation"
Those job agencies dont much apreciate our varied workl if it can all be covered in 1 week

The link has disappeared now,oh well, so has a lot of work that was remit of sparks

 

[mike2790]

just wana say that when serving an apprenticeship, getting told to do all the crappy jobs, is how you learn. there is just no way anybody can compare someone who has spent 5 weeks in a bay to an electrician who has been undertaking all sorts of tasks day in-day out on site through their apprenticeship.

i think where it all went wrong was when the whole competent person thing came about, what a load of rubbish, your either qualified or your not, simples.
myself, i went through college for 3 years, gained my apprenticeship, 2330, 17th ed, nvq lvl 3, sat AM2 and am waiting to do my 2391.

yes you can go about becoming an electrician in many different ways as durhamsparky has shown, but the bottom line is that you need experience and lots of it. i would love to meet an electrician who knows EVERYTHING about our trade, as one simply does not exist, every one of us is still learning.

the last week i have been on a job at a house where i got called out to check why the lights kept blowing and circuits were tripping, a little investigation (taking off some switches and sockets) revealed a whole host of cack. there were ring mains with earths cut out, lights were wired in single blue cable (no earth) and twin brown t&e. the main switch for the board was a single pole 63 amp fused circuit breaker. neutral was not isolated throughout. no bonding to any other services. security cable was used as a common in a 2 way and a whole lighting circuit was fed directly from a ring main. 240 volt fans directly over showers (within touching distance). we had to condemn the installation and recommend a rewire, which is what we are doing at the moment. the installation was four years old. i refuse to believe the guy who wired (and i use the term wired loosely) the monstrocity in the first place was an electrician or a "competant person", so the fact of the matter is that there should be something in place that stops people who dont know what theyre doing....from doing it. personally i think electricians should have to have certain quals or equivalant for the elders to get a card which verifies your an electrician to be able to do any type of work. i think we should be re-tested every so many years, which i wouldnt mind doing if it meant unqualified/inexperienced people werent trying to work as sparkys.

 

[gdr7671]

Syd Barrett, best reply yet

 

[mogga]

just to throw a wee wobbley one in here how do the JIB/SJIB ( supposed governers of the trade) grade 5 week guys? my gold approved card has "Approved apprenticeship" along with my other qualifications

 

[Spoon]

office boys stick to what you know best and sharpen them pencils while we fix the dodgy light you fitted from B&Q prior to getting a Blowy from ya missus cause she likes a real man!! lol...QUOTE]
I work in an office but I dont use a pencil mate. More of a mouse person. Regtarding a blowy from my missus: im married, all that kind of thing stopped when she said "I do."

 

[moshun111]

My husband and I used a Debt Negotiator, not a Consolidator. Be careful who you go with, sometimes consolidators will make you file bankruptcy anyway.

 

[SparksWill Fly]

NovusSparkus You're profile picture spells the word "ZION" which means new Jerusalem

moshun111 You should of asked them for the wet ink signed contract in accordance with the bills of exchange act 1882.

I can count the mature responses in this thread on 1 hand.

some of my questions and points have not been answered. At least not in a mature way that gets to the point without bringing Ego into it.

Plenty of fully qualified (3+years at college + time on the job) sparks out there who are cowboys.

I doubt the main problem in every instance is simply peoples issues with the quality of workmanship fast-trackers have/don't have. Seems to me the main problem is peoples distaste with the fact that the qualifications they gained in 3 years someone else has gained in 6 months or less.

Some of you come come across as having a "pull the rope up I'm ok" attitude.

 

[Adam W]

WTF!?

NovusSparkus You're profile picture spells the word "ZION" which means new Jerusalem

[

No, my avatar is the logo for the 2012 olympic games coloured in to look like Lisa Simpson giving Bart a blowy, not that that has anything at all to do with anything!

Why do you think people take 3 years or so to learn the trade if as you say it's possible to do it in 6 months or less? Are you trying to say we're a bit slow? If so with your superior intellect and previous "non mainstream" experience you should be able to make a very tidy profit with lots of happy customers and should stop moaning.

Or if on the other hand you don't know in your own mind that a fast track crash course is inferior to learning a trade the tried and tested way, then why would you state it was the only option to you? This makes it sound like it was a last resort at jumping on the bandwagon to scoop up the "up to £50,747" the training providers are promising.

I have worked with sparks who have completed apprenticeships and worked in the trade for 20 years or so and yes they're rubbish, but that doesn't automatically mean everyone who's completed an apprenticeship and has 20+ years experience is a useless sparks - that would be tarring everyone with the same brush, which I took to be what you were bellyaching about in the first place.

 

[Amp David]

They do..... I've picked up the pieces.... Luckily no one was killed and the firm only lost a days work while we and the DNO sorted it out

Christ, what had they done!LOL