Socket and switch heights

[Marcus Vaughan]

My house, my opinion. And yes, I would notice.

K

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

My house, my opinion. And yes, I would notice.

K

 

[oracle]

The OP question in the beginning was about a complete rewire. Every circuit and CCU will be changed. We are talking about the whole electrical installation changing, not just a few sockets in an extention or alteration. Constitutes a new electrical installation requiring a clean EIC.

 

[oracle]

The OP question in the beginning was about a complete rewire. Every circuit and CCU will be changed. We are talking about the whole electrical installation changing, not just a few sockets in an extention or alteration. Constitutes a new electrical installation requiring a clean EIC.

 

[johnduffell]

Part m is pretty clear.
For a new dwelling that may be visited by persons of reduced mobility ie new build and conversion from non domestic, the heights are prescribed. For an existing, you aren't allowed to be less compliant after than you were before.
For feelings designed for disabled people the requirements are much more strict and given in later chapters
All nothing to do with bs7671 or any other electrical rules or whether the cutout has been changed or moved.
Things that aren't a new dwelling would be a rewire, extension, plastering, loft conversion, extra sockets, etc.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

But Part M says extensions can be in keeping with existing installations ...............

To be honest I cannot find any words to that effect in Part M?

But I can see that it does say, for limits of application of M4(1) that it does NOT apply to extensions.

So I'll happily concede that you and others are correct about not having to comply.

So the Electricians Guide is incorrect, which is disappointing, seeing as I purchased it to try and get some clarity, rather than be misled.

All this said though, there are still instances where I would recommend to the customer that switches and sockets are between 450mm and 1200mm, but I guess, ultimately, and within reason, they can have them at whatever height they want.

It's good to talk.

 

[Octopus]

To be honest I cannot find any words to that effect in Part M?

But I can see that it does say, for limits of application of M4(1) that it does NOT apply to extensions.

So I'll happily concede that you and others are correct about not having to comply.

So the Electricians Guide is incorrect, which is disappointing, seeing as I purchased it to try and get some clarity, rather than be misled.

All this said though, there are still instances where I would recommend to the customer that switches and sockets are between 450mm and 1200mm, but I guess, ultimately, and within reason, they can have them at whatever height they want.

It's good to talk.

I've not bothered with the latest one - but its disappointing that they can't make sure the basics are summarised correctly - that said its the IET and their track record isn't good IMHO

 

[Octopus]

The OP question in the beginning was about a complete rewire. Every circuit and CCU will be changed. We are talking about the whole electrical installation changing, not just a few sockets in an extention or alteration. Constitutes a new electrical installation requiring a clean EIC.

I've given you a disagree because the EIC would say its an "alteration" - only a new build should really warrant a "new" status

 

[telectrix]

I've given you a disagree because the EIC would say its an "alteration" - only a new build should really warrant a "new" status

but you could argue that if everything after the meter is new, as in a total rewire, then it's a "new installation".

 

[Risteard]

A rewire is a new installation and not an alteration to an existing installation. End of story.

 

[oracle]

A rewire is a new installation and not an alteration to an existing installation. End of story.

Put your hand on your heart and repeat after me "I being the person responsible for the design, construction and inspection and testing of the electrical installation...

....having exercised reasonable care when carrying out (the above) certify that the work that I have been responsible for is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS7671 2018, except for the departures, if any, detailed below.

Details of the departures from BS7671 2018 (Regulations 120.3 and 133.5)

The extent of the liability of the signatory is limited to the work described above as the subject of this Certificate."

Amen

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Part M has a whole raft of requirements for new builds and alterations to existing buildings (all based upon anti-discrimination laws).
The vast majority of them relate to non-domestic properties.

With new build dwellings where the end user is not known, the property has to be designed to accommodate all (to avoid discrimination).
Where the end user is known, their preferences take precedence.

Think of it like this:
If a wheelchair user asked you to rewire a property and asked for all the sockets to be at 9” from the floor, would you refuse and site them at 450mm, as that’s the height recommended for disabled persons?

Edit:
Part M is not part of BS7671.

 

[oracle]

Being a mobility scooter user myself I take your point. Although some of the other people said no limitations or departures, in my previous post I offered both, straight off the front of the EIC.
One of them is shown below.

120.3 This Standard sets out technical requirements to enable electrical installations to conform with the fundamental principles of Chapter 13, as follows: Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Assessment of general characteristics Protection for safety Selection and erection of equipment Inspection and testing Special installations or locations.

Any intended DEPARTURE from these Parts requires special consideration by the designer of the installation and shall be RECORDED on the appropriate electrical certification specified in Part 6. The resulting degree of safety of the installation shall be not less than that obtained by compliance with the Regulations.

So the short answer is yes, I can do this, but I must record it as a departure.

 

[johnduffell]

So the short answer is yes, I can do this, but I must record it as a departure.

compliance or otherwise with Part M of the statutory building regs is entirely unrelated to compliance with BS7671.

Details of the departures from BS7671 2018

therefore recording that as a departure would be incorrect, as there is no BS7671 reg that you have not followed.

 

[oracle]

compliance or otherwise with Part M of the statutory building regs is entirely unrelated to compliance with BS7671.

therefore recording that as a departure would be incorr88ect, as there is no BS7671 reg that you have not followed.

I beg to differ, Reg 722.55.101.5 clearly states "The lowest part of any socket outlet shall be placed at a height of 0.5 to 1.5 m from the ground.
NOTE The requirements of the National Building Regulations should be adhered to in respect of socket outlet heights."

So there you have it, it's a departure, one way or another, and must be recorded.