sockets wired in 1.0mm 3 core flex

[Geordie Spark]

The only thing i can think of is de-rating the breaker. would be wondering what the Zs is for the circuit as well. The main problem i suspect is going to be the potential for burning out the flex behind a socket and then losing the "ring" - then its just a matter of time.
Good news is that much of the equipment in a kitchen is high load short duration like kettles, microwave, toaster, but if there is a dishwasher in there or a washing machine and heaven for bid they use them at the same time, i just cannot see the circuit being fit for purpose.
I personally would look at the appliances in the kitchen and think would de-rating work, if not you gotta put in a thicker cable

So far, I've resisted the temptation to post what I think about this utter balls-up but I can bite my tongue no longer.

The fact is that it is so completely unfit for purpose that the only solution for the OP is to rip it out & start again or walk away from the job.

As for the OP, If I had been him I would have been too embarrassed to even think of starting this thread.

Sorry bonny lad, but if you need to be asking what to do about this, I'm wondering if you've chosen the right career path.

 

[telectrix]

I thought you northeners used chewing gum if the gripfill has run out!

nah , they use gripfill if the chewing gum runs out.

 

[Geoffsd]

Geordie Spark is right. It is not allowed by BS7671.

However, if you were to note this as a departure and 'design' a 1mm² Ring Final Circuit - for some inexplicable reason - then

following the rules for a 2.5mm² Ring which, with a combined CCC of 54A (2x27), is only allowed a maximum OPD of 32A, a Ring with 1mm² flex which has a combined CCC of 20A would, by the same proportion, only be allowed a maximum OPD of 11.85A (20x32/54).

Therefore a 10A OPD would have to be fitted (only just enough for one 2kW kettle).

The circuit is completely useless and has to be replaced.

 

[Guitarist]

I deleted what I wrote earlier because I thought it may be taken as too harsh.

After several rewrites, I just cannot find the right words for this thread, so I will keep quiet on this one. :shocked3:

 

[Strima]

I deleted what I wrote earlier because I thought it may be taken as too harsh.

After several rewrites, I just cannot find the right words for this thread, so I will keep quiet on this one. :shocked3:

You feeling alright? Or have you spent too long in the sun?

 

[mayfair]

Well went to a job Thursday funny burning smell was the call anyway this villa has a pool pump house, a large recording studio, and a granny flat running of 1.5 mm three core flex spured of the back of a kitchen socket. The socket was where the funny burning smell was comming from btw. The flex is all plastered into the wall through the concrete floor then plastered again in a JB to feed the three above points....... Owner was unsure what i was getting at after a long explanation and drawing on the back of a beer mat............I was out of there so fast!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

why would a load need to be midway in a ring to avoid overloading??that's the point of a ring, that every point is the same in regards to any load upon it.I find that worrying that someone would think otherwise

If you place a 20A load on the midpoint of a RFC, 10A will flow down both legs.
If you place the 20A load a quarter of the way around the RFC, 15A will flow down the short leg and 5A down the long.
As the flex is rated at 10A, you should be able to see that having 15A flow through the cable is not good.

 

[ruston]

Has'nt a departure to be at least to the standard of safety afforded by the regs or to a similar standard............

If this is a recent installation it 's not up to that criteria ("Doing a re-wire for a customer who's had their kitchen redone recently ") no excuse at all in my opinion ,dose'nt comply with table 52.3 minimum cable size for power circuits 1.5mm, at the least.

 

[Guitarist]

You feeling alright? Or have you spent too long in the sun?

Must be the sun, mate. I really don't know how to respond to the op. Good job you guys were here in my hour of need....

 

[Strima]

Must be the sun, mate. I really don't know how to respond to the op. Good job you guys were here in my hour of need....

Just have a cold one and take a few deep breaths, it'll be alright...

 

[Adam W]

I don't see that there's technically anything 'wrong' with installing a ring final in flex, although I'd probably use double bootlace ferrules to reduce the risk of the ring breaking, and definitely reduce the rating of the breaker.

The question is though - 'why would you?' And for a kitchen as well? Given the amount of high current consuming appliances in a kitchen you'd want as much capacity as possible, not to restrict it by doing it in thin flex. When I say there's nothing technically wrong with it, that assumes there was a reason for doing it in the first place, other than it being cheaper or what the installer had lying around at the time.

I find it quite ironic that the OP is asking for serious suggestions for 'sorting out' such a silly circuit arrangement.

 

[JulianC]

Stick in a 6A breaker, remove the socket fronts and replace with batten lamp holders. Voila, novelty kitchen lighting and problem solved. No need to thank me.

 

[Marvo]

I don't see that there's technically anything 'wrong' with installing a ring final in flex,

Wouldn't the fact that there's no derating figures for different installation methods mean you can't use flex as installation cable?

 

[shocking_eg]

typical, sounds like kitchen fitters at work on the electrics :S

 

[plugsandsparks]

Well he's not been back yet, hope its a really small kitchen, otherwise his re-wire is going to have one circuit missing on his report.. LOL

Wonder what the max demand is ?