Spot the mistakes!

[RISElectrical]

How would you stand I wonder if you went to a property for a landlord that wanted a DVCR for change of tenant, however they had no previous PIR/ECIR to show for the installation.

Its all well and good having this as an interim inspection between EICRs but now landlords know they exist and in absence of proper guild lines for there use are we supposed to do DVCRs on the basis that the owner says they have a PIR but lost the cert etc? Give a landlord a cheaper option and they will take it.

 

[Octopus]

Well thanks again for sharing this with us sparks 72 this has been a real school day for me and spinlondon I totally agree with you because this is

what the NICEIC have put at the top of their DVCR document Issued in accordance with British Standard BS 7671 - Requirements for Electrical Installations


I must admit this has thrown me a wobbly as it was drummed into me that its either a EIC, PIR/EICR , MWC and no buts as per the BRB now the BGB now all of a sudden they are now admitting that a EICR is a bit over the top so there you go here is a cut down version ie DVCR. Now I am not wanting to rubbish this off if this is the direction that they have agreed it should go infact I welcome something like this as no landlord or letting agent is going to pay for a full EICR every time there is a change of tenant .

No whats got my goat is the fact that they have stamped their name all over this certificate yet make no mention of it good greif look at the mess of introducing the EICR caused at the same time it looks like local councils are doing deals with NICEIC,NAPIT,ELSCA ect that has undermined what if any faith I had left with these people. In other words the EICR road is not working lets try something else but lets not roll it out as an official move well here is hoping that the NICEIC will answer my is this a legal document under BS7671 question that I asked on the Voltimum Q&A


I forgot to add that when a letting agent g**gles EICR they will get sight of this thread and will start to ask for a DVCR cost

And if they do ask for a DVCR cost, I'll politely explain that all it is, is visual and should anything happen to the tennent, then the landlord will be responsible.

Water - you can touch and see
Gas - you can smell
Electricity - you can only touch under fault conditions - and then it may be too late!

 

[Octopus]

3 times in the last 6 months I've had clients contact me for PIR/EICR's because their Solicitors are recommending it as part of the process of buying a property, which I think is a great idea.

The average price of a house in the UK is about £165K and around me its probably more like £250K

To spend £200+ on an EICR before you buy could save you thousands!!

 

[oldtimer]

RISElectrical as I highlighted in previous post yep a DVCR would be ideal for a change of tenant as long as there was a full EICR every 5-6 years and that would be the way to go with checking the Zs at cooker and socket outlets included but this makes no sense infact they have just undermined the EICR and yet in a court of law they will be able to quote a EICR out of the BGB but not a DVCR yep this is as they say another fine mess they have put us in plus as Spinlondon highlights you are not legally obliged to join a scheme providor yet this is typical in this country instead of having laws to protect people we have self policing quangoes that now are becoming a law unto themselves.

Maybe we should get a fund together to take these clowns and the local councils to the European Court under the monopoly act and European Free trade act. Just a thought or maybe a dream

 

[sparks72]

Speaking with both the NICEIC an Elecsa.

NICEIC said, (and I agree with them) if the property is rented out for the 'FIRST' time and doesn't have any paperwork then a full periodic test and inspection should be carried out and any problems should be rectified.
After that you can issue a DVCR. Elecsa also agreed this is the way it should be done.

 

[sparks72]

Well thanks again for sharing this with us sparks 72 this has been a real school day for me and spinlondon I totally agree with you because this is

what the NICEIC have put at the top of their DVCR document Issued in accordance with British Standard BS 7671 - Requirements for Electrical Installations


I must admit this has thrown me a wobbly as it was drummed into me that its either a EIC, PIR/EICR , MWC and no buts as per the BRB now the BGB now all of a sudden they are now admitting that a EICR is a bit over the top so there you go here is a cut down version ie DVCR. Now I am not wanting to rubbish this off if this is the direction that they have agreed it should go infact I welcome something like this as no landlord or letting agent is going to pay for a full EICR every time there is a change of tenant .

No whats got my goat is the fact that they have stamped their name all over this certificate yet make no mention of it good greif look at the mess of introducing the EICR caused at the same time it looks like local councils are doing deals with NICEIC,NAPIT,ELSCA ect that has undermined what if any faith I had left with these people. In other words the EICR road is not working lets try something else but lets not roll it out as an official move well here is hoping that the NICEIC will answer my is this a legal document under BS7671 question that I asked on the Voltimum Q&A


I forgot to add that when a letting agent g**gles EICR they will get sight of this thread and will start to ask for a DVCR cost

Hi oldtimer.

Your welcome.

While I agree with you 199.9%!, were told that were liable for our own work.
I have a small problem with BS7671...........It isn't law but has been portrayed as a law book of some kind. I bet some have never heard of the law 'Electricity at work regulations 1989', the whole industry has been wrapped in red tape, causing confusion IMO.

 

[oldtimer]

Well to give you an update on my question on the voltimum forum I asked if this document was legal as it was not in the BS7671 and I selected NICEIC to a professional answer and guess what yep thay have not answered me. Yes I know what should I expect but they are the ones who point fingers and say its not in the regs .

Either way we need a definitive answer on this and me thinks they had dug a hole for themselves.

 

[sparks72]

3 times in the last 6 months I've had clients contact me for PIR/EICR's because their Solicitors are recommending it as part of the process of buying a property, which I think is a great idea.

The average price of a house in the UK is about £165K and around me its probably more like £250K

To spend £200+ on an EICR before you buy could save you thousands!!

I agree........and estate agents would become extinct overnight!

 

[sparks72]

Well to give you an update on my question on the voltimum forum I asked if this document was legal as it was not in the BS7671 and I selected NICEIC to a professional answer and guess what yep thay have not answered me. Yes I know what should I expect but they are the ones who point fingers and say its not in the regs .

Either way we need a definitive answer on this and me thinks they had dug a hole for themselves.

Well, let them scratch their head for a while. You'll get an answer sooner or later.

 

[oldtimer]

Well here you go I asked this

Is there such a thing as a Domestic Visual Condition Report ?

I have recently got sight of a Domestic Visual Condition Report that has a registration logo on it and also quotes compliance with BS7671 ? To me it looks like a cut down version of an EICR now my understanding is we have the EICR so can I ask the experts is this document legal and why is it included in the electronic certificate software that is supplied by some registration companies. These appear to be getting used for rental properties and are being requested by letting agents so can you shed some light on these please And this was the reply from NICEIC this report is purely a visual report and is usually asked for by a landlord on a yearly basis to confirm the condition of the accessoreies are safe for use. We do still recommend that an EICR is issued for the installtion. It is a matter of clearly indicating to the client that the limited scope of the information on the report could not comfirm that requirements for electrical testing have been fulfilled and that the report only confirms that there are no immediate electrical safety issues such as accesss to live parts,risk of fire due to overload etc and without electrical testing you could not confirm that the provision of the earthing and ADs could be confirmed however the visual inspection should be able to make comment that such things as earthing and bonding have been confirmed as being in place at the time of visual inspection being carried out. Further giudance can be obtained from our publication Test,Inspection and Certification.

 

[Engineer54]

Can't see how these condition reports can then be construed to comply with BS7671 then, as clearly they don't, in any shape or form!! I'm sure the legal and insurance professions wouldn't agree with the legality of these made up form formats either!! About as useful as sending an electrician round to find a fault without any test equipment!!

These things should be banned they are being used as a substitute for a bona fide EICR. Trust a scheme provider to come up with a meaningless report format that yet again, will just add to the demise of the qualified electrician....

 

[oldtimer]

Considering this was the "official" reply from NICEIC Its as clear as mud to me or in other words a bodged attempt to have a cheap visual inspection report that kept landlords and letting agents happy but have put them in a hole where they quote BS7671 but cannot show evidence that it actually exists.