Spurring of a spurred socket

[Welsh_sparky_21]

Is spurring off a sockets that’s already been spurred off a major no no?? It’s for a socket behind a wall mounted tv so not gony be a major load on the cable

 

[Pete999]

Is spurring off a sockets that’s already been spurred off a major no no?? It’s for a socket behind a wall mounted tv so not gony be a major load on the cable

It is unless you connect a FCU into the equation as per the Appendix 15

 

[telectrix]

as above^^. it's not compliant, but you won't get dragged away by the IET Gestapo and have your sidecutters surgically removed.

 

[radiohead]

While not technically compliant I can see no real problem with spurring a single socket from another single socket which itself is a spur. The reasoning being that the number of outlets on a spur is the same as a compliant twin socket fed as a spur from a ring. Any other scenario of more than one outlet from a spur would require being supplied through a 13a fused connection unit to avoid the possibility of overloading the spur conductors.
It is far better though to avoid spurs and feed all outlets by properly extending the ring.

 

[Dartlec]

as above^^. it's not compliant, but you won't get dragged away by the IET Gestapo and have your sidecutters surgically removed.

Speak for yourself - I live royally off the commission from reporting such naughtiness....

On a more serious note - The current use may be a TV - then the next person comes along and mounts two 3kW heaters on the wall. (Obviously the cable won't immediately burst into flames even in that case but it could certainly cause problems down the road)

The real reason not to do it IMO is that it's a PITA for trying to test and inspect visually when you think it's a ring...

If you're running a new cable from the socket, then add a FCU at the original socket.

It's a shame that none of the manufacturers produce a replacement two gang socket with one gang as a FCU - it would make this sort of situation easier. I assume you could do it with grid systems, but probably at quite a cost...

 

[ipf]

as above^^. it's not compliant, but you won't get dragged away by the IET Gestapo and have your sidecutters surgically removed.

Don't you mean his testiquipment?

 

[Dartlec]

While not technically compliant I can see no real problem with spurring a single socket from another single socket which itself is a spur. .

There is an argument for this, though that would assume that the cable is not derated at all during its run as 26A is in best circumstances. And I doubt anyone is going to do the calculations or written risk assessment to cover themselves in a court if something were to happen...

Most double sockets are rated at 20A I believe, not 26A, partly for this reason - And many of the cheap sockets would probably struggle with 20A from the state I've seen some of them when installed in kitchens.

I recently found a 2.5mm radial covering kitchen and downstairs which had been on a 32A MCB for at least 10 years. The cable passed IR testing perfectly - though some of the sockets had to be replaced for melty connections.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

While not technically compliant I can see no real problem with spurring a single socket from another single socket which itself is a spur. The reasoning being that the number of outlets on a spur is the same as a compliant twin socket fed as a spur from a ring. Any other scenario of more than one outlet from a spur would require being supplied through a 13a fused connection unit to avoid the possibility of overloading the spur conductors.
It is far better though to avoid spurs and feed all outlets by properly extending the ring.

Technically not right
But your not going to put any cables or terminals under any sort of stress doing this. Still going to pull 26A Max.

 

[Pete999]

Don't you mean his testiquipment?

No his electrical qualifications
[automerge]1599406168[/automerge]

Don't you mean his testiquipment?

Well you should be.
[automerge]1599406393[/automerge]

There is an argument for this, though that would assume that the cable is not derated at all during its run as 26A is in best circumstances. And I doubt anyone is going to do the calculations or written risk assessment to cover themselves in a court if something were to happen...

Most double sockets are rated at 20A I believe, not 26A, partly for this reason - And many of the cheap sockets would probably struggle with 20A from the state I've seen some of them when installed in kitchens.

I recently found a 2.5mm radial covering kitchen and downstairs which had been on a 32A MCB for at least 10 years. The cable passed IR testing perfectly - though some of the sockets had to be replaced for melty connections.

Don't make it compliant though does it





















?

There is an argument for this, though that would assume that the cable is not derated at all during its run as 26A is in best circumstances. And I doubt anyone is going to do the calculations or written risk assessment to cover themselves in a court if something were to happen...

Most double sockets are rated at 20A I believe, not 26A, partly for this reason - And many of the cheap sockets would probably struggle with 20A from the state I've seen some of them when installed in kitchens.

I recently found a 2.5mm radial covering kitchen and downstairs which had been on a 32A MCB for at least 10 years. The cable passed IR testing perfectly - though some of the sockets had to be replaced for melty connections.

Don't make it compliant though does is it?

 

[Dartlec]

Technically not right
But your not going to put any cables or terminals under any sort of stress doing this. Still going to pull 26A Max.

Probably true - though I'm sure someone could find an unfused euro pin adapter and take rather more - not that unusual I'd suspect in a rental property.

That's why compliance is always the best option - then it's never your fault when the end user does something stupid....

 

[radiohead]

There is an argument for this, though that would assume that the cable is not derated at all during its run as 26A is in best circumstances. And I doubt anyone is going to do the calculations or written risk assessment to cover themselves in a court if something were to happen...

Most double sockets are rated at 20A I believe, not 26A, partly for this reason - And many of the cheap sockets would probably struggle with 20A from the state I've seen some of them when installed in kitchens.

I recently found a 2.5mm radial covering kitchen and downstairs which had been on a 32A MCB for at least 10 years. The cable passed IR testing perfectly - though some of the sockets had to be replaced for melty connections.

The point about double sockets being rated at 20a has been levelled against this before, but in practice no punter will take this into account when plugging appliances in. If they want to plug in 2x 3kw heaters they will plug them into whatever is there, be that a twin or two singles. The same applies to the rating of the cable, whether it is a twin spur or two singles it can still be subject to exactly the same load.
The point about testing being complicated by a single spur from another single spur is a valid one, but any competent electrician should be able to ascertain how this is wired and come to a conclusion that in practice there is no more hazard from two singles as one twin on a spur.
Why cant some people explain their disagreement when something is put forward rather than a silly red cross?
Actually I know why.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Probably true - though I'm sure someone could find an unfused euro pin adapter and take rather more - not that unusual I'd suspect in a rental property.

That's why compliance is always the best option - then it's never your fault when the end user does something stupid....

Yeah, I’m only saying in theory like we all are, would never install i that way ?

 

[littlespark]

The wiring regulations are there for a reason. A spur off a spur is non compliant. Simple as.

If this first spur was taken from a 16A radial circuit, then that's a different story.
(cough change the breaker cough)


Yes. I know... Very simplistic solution. I dont know how many points are on the circuit already.... might be all of downstairs with kettles and heaters and whatever else.

If its an easy enough job, FCU at the source of the spur, as suggested above. Then everything taken off is limited to 13A.

 

[radiohead]

The wiring regulations are there for a reason. A spur off a spur is non compliant. Simple as.

If this first spur was taken from a 16A radial circuit, then that's a different story.
(cough change the breaker cough)


Yes. I know... Very simplistic solution. I dont know how many points are on the circuit already.... might be all of downstairs with kettles and heaters and whatever else.

If its an easy enough job, FCU at the source of the spur, as suggested above. Then everything taken off is limited to 13A.

The wiring regulations are not statutory, and departures are permitted where it can be demonstrated that the resulting degree of safety is not less than that obtained by compliance.
Nobody can give a valid reason why a single socket spurred from another single socket itself wired from a spur is any less safe than a double outlet on a spur. There is no more chance of overloading the supply cable, or the outlets themselves, and it can be tested and verified in the same way as any other wiring.

 

[Ian1981]

Departures are permitted but there’s a difference between a departure and a non compliance