Spurs above kitchen work surfaces.

[pritch]

About to start a contract monday for fitted kitchens and ive heard the guys who are doing the sparky work at the moment just put sockets inside cuboards or behind the appliances. Now ive always put a spur above and a flex outlet plate below for easy local isolation.
The difference between the two regarding time is a hell of alot and ive got a feeling im going to get the kitchen fitter up my arse.
Ive done my 17th a while back but if i remember i'm sure you should always put a spur above and outlet below and putting a socket inside a kitchen unit or behind the appliance is not to regs?
cheers

 

[mylocalelectric]

Reg 5.2.2. of the electricians guide to the building regs locations of accessories in kitchens general guidance wiring accessories socket outlets etc should preferably mounted to the fabric of the building and not the kitchen furniture

Hi Nick Blake, Thanks for that! Do remember that it is only a guide lol! I do not tend to take these things too serious, It will grind you up inside in the end hahahahaha..... Pick out the words, "preferably" and "furniture" Quite vague too don't you think? Or is it just like I always say, down to interpretation? lol!

My Site guides are in my van and can't be bothered to out in the cold to get them Just keep my full regs indoors!

 

[hsuelec77]

I use dp 20a grid switches etched with appliances on, saves on having loads of spurs also im sure unswitched sockets for appliances are 600mm ffl. the reason the unswitched sockets are in cuboards cus of intergated appliances.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

They have to attached to the fabric of the building, so chop n chase it is

The unit is fixed to the wall, the socket is fixed to the unit, so in my opinion the socket is fixed to the fabric of the building. The socket is accessible and the appliance isolateable, so no problems. Unless customer wants grid switches above the worktops all my outlets for appliances go in the units....its a no brainer really, and if the people who write the regs are reading this and say you cant do this, then change the bloody regs so that we can, cos we electricians are right, and not you pen pushers.

Cheers.........Howard

 

[mylocalelectric]

Heres and intresting one island in the middle of the kitchen no building fabric except floor but to low to comply as should be min 450 mm mmmmmm

I would love to comment on this but after the last fews days I have had onsite with a new extension with a swimming pool, jacuzzi, two out buildings, the list goes on..... My mind is a little fried in working things out lol! Should be back on top form again when the job is finished

 

[mylocalelectric]

The unit is fixed to the wall, the socket is fixed to the unit, so in my opinion the socket is fixed to the fabric of the building. The socket is accessible and the appliance isolateable, so no problems. Unless customer wants grid switches above the worktops all my outlets for appliances go in the units....its a no brainer really, and if the people who write the regs are reading this and say you cant do this, then change the bloody regs so that we can, cos we electricians are right, and not you pen pushers.

Cheers.........Howard

Howard, What can I say to your reply? Nice one! I could not have said it better lol! Though from what I understand the regs are written by sparks, Though I have never met one of them. Funny really, I wonder why they keep themselves anonymous lol!

 

[Lofty]

Hi,
'The unit is fixed to the wall, the socket is fixed to the unit, so in my opinion the socket is fixed to the fabric of the building.' from SirKit breaker.
Is exactly what I was told by an NICIEC chappy whilst having this conversation with him about a year ago as well as the fact as previously mentiond that the 'Electricians Guide to Building Regs' is just that a guide only.
I tend to use either 20A DP switch or an FCU dependant on the customers choice and an unswitched socket below and on the wall if at all possible.

Cheers,
Lofty

 

[mylocalelectric]

Hi Guys, Changing the subject slightly, I have replied to a question on my blog here - PART P | My Local Electrician - What's your thoughts? Would be great to have your comments for this guy!

 

[pritch]

Just heard off the fitter that all the power for the new appliances fit inside the units, they just leave a long loop under the kitchen units and the fitter pull the cables through.Not the way I normally work but its the ways its done for this company.

 

[telectrix]

as long as the sockets are accessible for isolation, no problem.

 

[mylocalelectric]

Just heard off the fitter that all the power for the new appliances fit inside the units, they just leave a long loop under the kitchen units and the fitter pull the cables through.Not the way I normally work but its the ways its done for this company.

Thanks for the advice pritch, I am gonna stick my neck out here a little and say I think I speak for most of us electricians on here, With regards to the "fitters" I am sure they are very good at fitting kitchens but please leave the electrics to us! We will tell the fitter where and how the cables and accessories can and can't be fitted

Maybe next time I work along side a kitchen fitter I may advice them as to where to fit their units

 

[Superspark23]

Howard, What can I say to your reply? Nice one! I could not have said it better lol! Though from what I understand the regs are written by sparks, Though I have never met one of them. Funny really, I wonder why they keep themselves anonymous lol!

The tutor i had at Lowestoft College for the Regs update, He helped write the 17th ed, if i remember correctly his name was david wyre. He said to us all, the regs contradict them selfs through out, and most of the time impossible to abide by. Which i tottally agree with, its down to us to interprecate the regs to suit each installations and to make it as safe as resonibilly possible.

 

[domestic spark]

If you can't fit outlets to cabinets, then the majority of the floor standing appliances won't be able to go back to the wall flush with the units/worktop. Not unless you chop them into the wall, even then some appliances don't have any room behind them, even for this arrangement...


worse comes to worse in this situation chop the plug off and fit a flex outlet plate. its fused from the spur!!!
​

 

[domestic spark]

can't have that. her inddors doing the washing in the living room when top gear's on the telly. naaaah.

lol legend

 

[sparkiegaz]

dont do domestic but i thought u had to use fcu as a plud top isnt a means of emergency isolation,,,,washing machines dishwashers etc water and electrical appliancies,,
might be wrong,,,

 

[sparkiegaz]

plug top even,,,,,,,,wats a plud top,,,,