Tier 4

[plugsandsparks]

I think there is little doubt our hospitals are full of Covid, ours certainly is and its why we are in T3. So the question really is , to question the above sentiment, so what do we do after the hospitals are full to capacity, ask Covid sufferers to stay at home and put a white tea towel on the front door ????

There are no real choices in this matter

Best is not to get it and not to pass it on, hence the gov advice on controlling the virus.

I am from the school of Milton Friedman and i dont really worry about loss of freedom in this context.

Oh and Chris Whitty our CMO is an expert in pandemics, we are lucky we have him. I listen to him intently as he has been right on many occasions predicting the future. When he speaks i can see Boris twitching but he still gets his message across

 

[7029 dave]

There are actually quite a few top doctors and scientists saying things to the effect that the risk from the virus has been grossly exaggerated. Heiko Shöning and Dolores Cahill are a couple of examples. Look up '12 experts questioning the coronavirus panic', '10 more experts questioning...' and '8 more experts...'. But instead of them the government choose to listen to crackpots with no knowledge like Bill Gates and Neil Fergusson.

Meanwhile others get rich off the scam - vaccine makes selling shares at inflated prices, PPE companies that just happen to be run by friends of cabinet ministers being awarded multi-million pound contracts that were never put to competitive tender and the big companies that will seize the market from all the small companies going bust (again).

Oh, and by the way, the masks people are being told to wear have not been made or tested to any British or international standard - so no-one knows their permeability to air or impermeability to viruses. Child-safety socket covers anyone?

I don't mean to get at anyone. But seriously, if lots of people don't re-asses this fast, this thing is not going away. We will not get our freedom back. We will be living under a Ch*n*se style autocracy with every move monitored and controlled for the rest of our lives.

I would take a bet, you dont know anybody that has had the virus or died from it.

 

[Selfmade]

So you think this is all because the government want to control us? Despite it losing them millions on fuel revenue, taxes, furlough outgoings?

Do you also think the other countries are all in collusion with our government? And all countries have decided to do this at the same time? Presumably you think the reason Russia is banning UK flights is all part of the plan? You think Russia would do this if it didn't think there was a risk to its people?

And yes, obviously not all masks are equal.

There are two reasons government ministers, civil servants and the like might not care about depleting treasury finances. One is, they can and are simply printing more money, which is exactly the same as raiding people's savings accounts as it devalues the currency. The other is, treasury finances are not the same as individual ministers/civil servants personal finances, so of course some may be willing to sacrifice the former to enrich themselves.

Governments are taking their cue form the likes of the UN, WHO, Gates Foundation, World Economic Forum etc., which by their nature do not operate within national boundaries. Some governments have not followed the narrative. Sweden took a different approach and had a no-worse outcome from the virus and a much better outcome economically. The late president of Tanzania had a goat and a fruit (if memory serves me correctly) tested for coronavirus and they both came back positive.

I'm not here to argue with anyone, just to point out that not all experts agree with the mainstream narrative. Government choose among their experts Bill Gates (not a doctor or scientist) and Neil Fergusson, who's mathematical model has been torn to shreds by his peers.

 

[Selfmade]

I think there is little doubt our hospitals are full of Covid, ours certainly is and its why we are in T3. So the question really is , to question the above sentiment, so what do we do after the hospitals are full to capacity, ask Covid sufferers to stay at home and put a white tea towel on the front door ????

There are no real choices in this matter

Best is not to get it and not to pass it on, hence the gov advice on controlling the virus.

I am from the school of Milton Friedman and i dont really worry about loss of freedom in this context.

Oh and Chris Whitty our CMO is an expert in pandemics, we are lucky we have him. I listen to him intently as he has been right on many occasions predicting the future. When he speaks i can see Boris twitching but he still gets his message across

Yet some people have filmed inside hospitals and they are empty. I know someone who worked in a hospital (in a non-medical capacity) and said it became empty after the 'pandemic' started.

There are choices. No-one has the right to tell others how to look after their own health. Give me a document to sign that I will never accept treatment from the NHS and I can have my freedom back and I will sign in right away.

I'm not familiar with the work of Milton Friedman so can't comment on this. As for experts in pandemics, there was one (I think it was the Swine flue) that was ultimately outed as a scam even by the mainstream media.

 

[Selfmade]

I would take a bet, you dont know anybody that has had the virus or died from it.

Absolutely correct. And nor has anyone I've spoken to.

 

[Zerax]

Oh, and by the way, the masks people are being told to wear have not been made or tested to any British or international standard - so no-one knows their permeability to air or impermeability to viruses.

Yes... this is most certainly true... and, IMHO the idiotic and moronic general public seem to think that wearing one gives them instant, total immunity. It amazes me that when I go into a supermarket, it's full of families that appear to be having some sort of shopping 'day out' !! Of course, they are each dutifully wearing a mask... so that's ok then.

Surely we must now rue the day when we banned 'common sense'...

 

[Selfmade]

Yes... this is most certainly true... and, IMHO the idiotic and moronic general public seem to think that wearing one gives them instant, total immunity. It amazes me that when I go into a supermarket, it's full of families that appear to be having some sort of shopping 'day out' !! Of course, they are each dutifully wearing a mask... so that's ok then.

Surely we must now rue the day when we banned 'common sense'...

I agree up to a point - but I would say if they believe the masks will keep them safe then that's their choice, except perhaps when it comes to the children. Personally, I'll go for good diet, sunlight fresh air and exercise any day.

 

[Zerax]

I would take a bet, you dont know anybody that has had the virus or died from it.

Many many people have had it... don't forget that the 'official' figures for 'cases' are only for confirmed cases...i.e. after you've had a positive test. The vast majority of people that have had it, are asymptomatic or very mild such that they don't need a test. That's why that ridiculous graph they keep showing of 'cases' over time for this year is largely nonsense... the number of cases goes up with the number of tests that are conducted ! So the size of the 'lump' in April is not at all relatable to the size of the 'lump' in recent weeks... for the simple reason that we are doing far far far more testing !

 

[Selfmade]

A bit of satire from some conspiracy theorists: https://ia801707.us.archive.org/4/items/eFilingComics3/37_Asterix_and_the_Chariot_Race.pdf . Oh wait, this was published in 2017. I rest my case.

TLDR? Turn to page 14, then page 39.

 

[7029 dave]

Absolutely correct. And nor has anyone I've spoken to.

I thought so, if you had a loved one in ICU fighting to stay alive or killed from this virus your views would be different.
This is no scam its very real, IMO man made virus etc (but thats another story)

 

[Selfmade]

Many many people have had it... don't forget that the 'official' figures for 'cases' are only for confirmed cases...i.e. after you've had a positive test. The vast majority of people that have had it, are asymptomatic or very mild such that they don't need a test. That's why that ridiculous graph they keep showing of 'cases' over time for this year is largely nonsense... the number of cases goes up with the number of tests that are conducted ! So the size of the 'lump' in April is not at all relatable to the size of the 'lump' in recent weeks... for the simple reason that we are doing far far far more testing !

The tests produce huge numbers - something like 97% I believe - false positives. Quite agree with regard to the cumulative figures being nonsense. And not adjusting for increased testing is just plain ridiculous and dishonest.

 

[Zerax]

...but I would say if they believe the masks will keep them safe then that's their choice.

No... you've misunderstood what the point of the mask is (just like the majority of the general public)... a 'simple' mask merely limits the extent that your breath will travel, thus it reduces the distance over which you might pass on the virus. It does very very little to protect the wearer. (yes, I know there are some masks that do, but they are specialities not often seen)

And don't forget that the majority of people that have the virus are asymptomatic... so they won't know they have it !

 

[plugsandsparks]

Yet some people have filmed inside hospitals and they are empty. I know someone who worked in a hospital (in a non-medical capacity) and said it became empty after the 'pandemic' started.

There are choices. No-one has the right to tell others how to look after their own health. Give me a document to sign that I will never accept treatment from the NHS and I can have my freedom back and I will sign in right away.

I'm not familiar with the work of Milton Friedman so can't comment on this. As for experts in pandemics, there was one (I think it was the Swine flue) that was ultimately outed as a scam even by the mainstream media.

Its OK, there are just a few people i am listening to on the Covid situation, Chris Whitty, who has a number of lectures available to view, if you are interested. 2 GPs in my village and 2 of my family who work in the NHS.
Milton Friedman discusses, at length, freedom in a capitalist society, worth a listen to over Xmas, his lectures are spectacular. BUT i disagree with your premise that you can sign a document and get your freedom back. In our society the government have a role to stop the impact of others causing harm to 3rd parties, its part of the fundamental aspects of freedom and Milton describes it very very well.
So if you could guarantee that you will not cause harm to others, no problem, but this is a pandemic and there are no guarantees possible. Even when you are dead you are still an infection problem for others.

Time to suck it up, lol - it will get better... eventually

 

[Zerax]

The tests produce huge numbers - something like 97% I believe - false positives.

You're wrong again... sorry. There are several different 'flavours' of tests... some better than others. But even the worst ones (the 'flow' type I think, like a pregnancy test) are far more accurate than that. But the accuracy is each way... so some tests fail to pick up the virus and they can give a false positive. It's complicated I know...

And of course, the test merely shows the immediate 'as of now' situation... so it might show as being negative on a Monday, but by Tuesday a moron in a mask shopper in Lidl might have passed it on to you !

 

[DPG]

As I've said before, I know several people who have had Covid. All were fit and healthy, in fact two of them were regular gym goers, which may well be where they caught it, who knows. Four of these people had bad symptoms, and two have had months of long term respiratory problems ever since. Make no mistake, this is not just flu.

The penny will drop for you at some point that it is not a government conspiracy. Hopefully it won't take the illness/death of someone you love.