Time to call it a day

[GMES]

Sorry Dave, didn't see that! Thankyou

I'm off to see a very pretty new girlfriend now so shall say goodbye for now.

Oh no you're not, get back here and argue about the rights and wrongs of sticking 2.5mm cable in a 32a mcb, that will go round and round and round and round and round until we all agree to disagree.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I would prefer LSZH twin and earth in a commercial environment of standard PVC twin and earth.

 

[Rpa07]

Sorry Dave, didn't see that! Thankyou

I'm off to see a very pretty new girlfriend now so shall say goodbye for now.

She's not new, he's had her for ages and that's why he was quiet the latter part of last year. How do you spell oooeeeooo @Pete999 is good at spelling noises!

@Sparkhe, don't be down. You have 30 years of experience to give. If you need to catch up since the 16th then hang around on here and read through the archives. There is the 17th 2382-15 from city and guilds that you would ace then you'd be back on track.
You've probably forgotten more than half of us know, although listening to us bickering about 2.5 Spurs will probably make you want to leave the game anyway.
Hoping to hear more from you, get involved and have a banter!
Respect, Rob

 

[Pete999]

She's not new, he's had her for ages and that's why he was quiet the latter part of last year. How do you spell oooeeeooo @Pete999 is good at spelling noises!

@Sparkhe, don't be down. You have 30 years of experience to give. If you need to catch up since the 16th then hang around on here and read through the archives. There is the 17th 2382-15 from city and guilds that you would ace then you'd be back on track.
You've probably forgotten more than half of us know, although listening to us bickering about 2.5 Spurs will probably make you want to leave the game anyway.
Hoping to hear more from you, get involved and have a banter!
Respect, Rob

 

[Pete999]

What sort of mood are you in for me to spell a noise for you mate? Who ever is thinking of giving up,don't or I'll come over and smack you one understand?

 

[The Ghost]

I feel for you and know how it can be sometimes when you get sniped at. But I really cannot see throwing away thirty years after one low blow! Just update and fight back. What else can you do, shelf filling? I don't think so! Your employer has a duty to support and train anyone working for him. Why has he not assisted you, I would be asking that. Have you been sacked? No? well once more unto the breach then! or ....shelf filling.

 

[7029 dave]

Not sure what you mean by a 32A bracket?

However I must cringe at the very notion of T&E being used in a commercial setting - that cable is designed for domestic use only.

Say's who.?

 

[PEG]

Oh no you're not, get back here and argue about the rights and wrongs of sticking 2.5mm cable in a 32a mcb, that will go round and round and round and round and round until we all agree to disagree.

I do hope that is not a euphemism,for a personal short-coming,and a skinny bird...

 

[Risteard]

What is wrong with T&E on a commercial site or does everyone wire offices in swa now.

Doesn't have to be SWA - singles are the usual way. T&E is designed for domestic use.

 

[Risteard]

Say's who.?

The standards, for a start.

 

[Risteard]

The fact you can't use twin and earth cables in commercial installations is absolute nonsense!

I didn't say you can't. I said that you shouldn't and that they are not designed for that use.

 

[hightower]

T+E not suitable for commercial? It has been lashed in at the job I was on today - it's not always possible to have nice pretty runs of conduit/trunking everywhere to accommodate singles, and often T+E is the easiest (and best) solution.

 

[Risteard]

It has been lashed in at the job I was on today

Exactly - T&E in a non-domestic installation is a lashup.

 

[Risteard]

often T+E is the easiest (and best) solution.

In what situation is it the best solution? (Or even a good solution for that matter.)

 

[7029 dave]

The standards, for a start.

What does that mean.? I am not up for an argument Risteard, but In my experience , I have used it, if mechanical protected ie metal trunking etc, no problem. Easy to use in commercial refurbs .

 

[hightower]

In what situation is it the best solution? (Or even a good solution for that matter.)

Well I'd argue that it is well suited in the environment I was in today. An old club with voids all over the place. They don't want conduit/trunking running on the surface everywhere, and it would have been impossible to install conduit/trunking in the void as a retrofit. Being able to rod T+E in the voids allows for progress to be made.

 

[Risteard]

I have used it, if mechanical protected ie metal trunking etc, no problem. Easy to use in commercial refurbs .

So why wouldn't you use singles in a containment system like that mentioned?

Also the cpc size is often likely to be unsuitable for the fault levels encountered in non-domestic installations.

 

[Risteard]

Well I'd argue that it is well suited in the environment I was in today. An old club with voids all over the place. They don't want conduit/trunking running on the surface everywhere, and it would have been impossible to install conduit/trunking in the void as a retrofit. Being able to rod T+E in the voids allows for progress to be made.

Why not use something like Hi-Tuff then with the same csa (and insulated) cpc as the live conductors. I presume you have allowed for non-combustible supports for the wiring system and tried to prevent acrid smoke in escape routes?

 

[7029 dave]

So why wouldn't you use singles in a containment system like that mentioned?

Also the cpc size is often likely to be unsuitable for the fault levels encountered in non-domestic installations.

So why wouldn't you use singles in a containment system like that mentioned?


Simply because it was not a full containment system. Using voids in ceiling, and stud work.

 

[westward10]

So why wouldn't you use singles in a containment system like that mentioned?

Also the cpc size is often likely to be unsuitable for the fault levels encountered in non-domestic installations.

I have never read so much twaddle in all my life. Fault levels in commercial are often similar to domestic with the same type of circuit protection. What Standards do you refer to, give us some numbers.

 

[Risteard]

Fault levels in commercial are often similar to domestic with the same type of circuit protection.

And they are often much greater. If you look at the cable standards you will see that they are designed for domestic installations. You can claim that T&E in non-domestic installations is good practice all you want but it says more about you than me if you think that. It is frankly an abhorrent practice which only occurs because it is a cheap way of doing things - not because it is a good way.

 

[Ian1981]

And they are often much greater. If you look at the cable standards you will see that they are designed for domestic installations. You can claim that T&E in non-domestic installations is good practice all you want but it says more about you than me if you think that. It is frankly an abhorrent practice which only occurs because it is a cheap way of doing things - not because it is a good way.

An example would be dado trunking for a computer suite.
Where does it state and why not use twin and earth cables if seen fit.
Plenty of room in 100x 75mm trunking , capacity not exceeded to say you have to install singles is absurd

 

[Risteard]

An example would be dado trunking for a computer suite.
Where does it state and why not use twin and earth cables if seen fit.
Plenty of room in 100x 75mm trunking , capacity not exceeded to say you have to install singles is absurd

Trunking is designed for singles - not for T&E. And in Dado T&E is so inflexible as to be completely unsuitable.

 

[7029 dave]

Trunking is designed for singles - not for T&E. And in Dado T&E is so inflexible as to be completely unsuitable.

I agree on that.

 

[kingeri]

Trunking is designed for singles - not for T&E. And in Dado T&E is so inflexible as to be completely unsuitable.

Also there is no reference method B for t&e suggesting that it was not conceived originally that people would start putting it in conduit etc.