To remainers and leavers alike please read for an interesting take on the matter

[The Ghost]

Economics rules everything, except maybe the heart. There is no one so stupid who will turn around and say "look I could do a million dollar deal with you but you left the EU so I am not going to" Once an offer is on the table brexit or no brexit they will tear your hand off either side of the channel to get that business. Use common sense!

 

[telectrix]

and for my last post #58, i forgot to mention fishing rights in our territorial waters. after brexit, maybe our fishing industry will come back when the french and spanish have to go back and fish in their own bloody water. rule brittania

 

[FatAlan]

What would be wrong with that is the fact that in a democracy when we vote and the ayes have it that is final.
What will you do next, we vote for Mr or Mrs X for prime minister Mr X gets voted in, you want another election? No it does not not not work like that we all abide by the majority vote and get on with it. It is not up for dissection, insulting, patronising and so on the majority vote that is how it works! You lose a game of chess you lost get over it. Bow to the will of the majority.

As someone that voted to leave based on an under informed opinion (years bent banana and pasty stories) and not really being fully aware of the current relationship with the EU and the serious implications I’d like another vote please. Is that not democratic? Funny also how the first vote was actually only an advisory vote and has been proved in the high court that if carried out under electoral commission rules would be shown as corrupt! Unfortunately they can’t do anything about it as it was unofficial and the government has ploughed on regardless.

 

[Baddegg]

Admire your honesty there Alan, can I ask what has changed your mind specifically?

 

[FatAlan]

I’d been swept along with the fears on Islamaphobia linked in with the Syrian refugee crisis and the concerns over immigration. Funny how most of the Islamic nutters are home grown and have been groomed by our own home grown extremists facilitated by our own social media platforms which are not taking responsibility for policing their content. Under EU rules we do have more control over immigration than we choose to enforce.
Years of peace in Northern Ireland is at risk. We still sit outside the Euro which is good and overal any negotiated deal that we get with the EU post Brexit will mean that to get any good trade deals we will have to comply with EU rules anyway without any say in how they are made. I just can’t see any advantages.

 

[Jim_e_Jib]

I for one am not manipulated by any person in this land. I dare say there are many many like me who are actually more intelligent than you would give us credit for and as fearless as a Lion to boot.

Whether we like it or not, we are all manipulated on a daily basis. Sometimes we are aware as it happens, other times with hindsight but often we are blissfully unaware. This is not related to our intelligence but more often the skill of the people manipulating us and our own predictable human traits.

Those adverts on the television we think are rubbish, aren't rubbish, they're just not aimed at us. The ones we think are clever, funny or relatable, probably are aimed at us and I am certain that we've all been persuaded to buy something because of an advert whether we realise or not.

Politics is no different and there are those of us who will be influenced one way or another by what is essentially clever, or even underhand, marketing from all areas of the political spectrum and in this case both the leave and remain campaigns. For people who had an opinion on what they thought was right beforehand (whichever way that opinion fell) and remain unchanged in that opinion, this 'marketing' will likely have served not to change their minds or opinions but to re-enforce their belief that they are right.

 

[FatAlan]

and for my last post #58, i forgot to mention fishing rights in our territorial waters. after brexit, maybe our fishing industry will come back when the french and spanish have to go back and fish in their own bloody water. rule brittania

Problem Tel is that our fishing industry sells the vast majority of its catch to Europe and I only have fish and chips about once a month We’ve actually sold some of our fishing rights to foreign fleets and the current U.K. industry is less than the turn over of Harrods.

 

[FatAlan]

Economics rules everything, except maybe the heart. There is no one so stupid who will turn around and say "look I could do a million dollar deal with you but you left the EU so I am not going to" Once an offer is on the table brexit or no brexit they will tear your hand off either side of the channel to get that business. Use common sense!

I hope you’re right Vortigen but isn’t that’s what is happening now and by leaving we are just going to add an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy to over complicate matters?

 

[FatAlan]

Whether we like it or not, we are all manipulated on a daily basis. Sometimes we are aware as it happens, other times with hindsight but often we are blissfully unaware. This is not related to our intelligence but more often the skill of the people manipulating us and our own predictable human traits.

Those adverts on the television we think are rubbish, aren't rubbish, they're just not aimed at us. The ones we think are clever, funny or relatable, probably are aimed at us and I am certain that we've all been persuaded to buy something because of an advert whether we realise or not.

Politics is no different and there are those of us who will be influenced one way or another by what is essentially clever, or even underhand, marketing from all areas of the political spectrum and in this case both the leave and remain campaigns. For people who had an opinion on what they thought was right beforehand (whichever way that opinion fell) and remain unchanged in that opinion, this 'marketing' will likely have served not to change their minds or opinions but to re-enforce their belief that they are right.

You are spot on there. After working for several years dealing with people who have lost hundreds or thousands to investment fraud it was interesting that quite a large number refused to believe that they had been conned.

 

[Baddegg]

Just a side note it Abbot has out done herself today! Apparently it’s the British governments fault that Shamima Begum baby died!! Nothing to do with being born in a refugee camp in a country it’s mother chose to live in! The death of any baby is tragic but to use that as political point scoring is an absolute disgrace!

 

[The Ghost]

we are all manipulated on a daily basis.

adverts on the television

leave and remain campaigns.

Maybe and @FatAlan has admitted to that very thing and I suppose by implication you accept you are. I will concede that to a degree in certain matters maybe, just maybe I may be at times. You talk of adverts and leave remain. I was responding to @FatAlan and the chatterati (read politicians) calling us too stupid. In any event the matter for me has nothing to do with leave or remain I never voted ever for Brexit or any councillor or MP. I do not want a ruling class that I have to vote for, I vote for no man. Constitutionally just for the record I am a free man born upon this land and subservient to no man nor answerable to them. I posit that each of you are as well. The fact manipulation has allowed a vast percentage to accept the status quo and let other men rule them I cannot answer for. I agree I am in thrall to the powers that be because I do not have an army to enforce my will as they did. Not that I want one by the way.
But sorry my point is that brexit or not, deal or no deal is all a massive great red herring to entertain the people while demographic changes are taking place that are seismic in their import. But nobody notices those who do are sent to prison. Now that is manipulation. The only point I see about our relations with europe are the constitutional matters I have alluded to. As to the common market Teddy boy promised us to vote for, where is it? We were lied to. I don't mind a common market free trade both ways bring it on. The problem is they never did it was a ruse to allow ceding of sovereignty to foreign powers while we watched their hands and wondered at the sleight of them alas to late.

 

[The Ghost]

I often think of the people who write in to East Enders and Coronation Street to tell so and so character that her husband is cheating on her. Or the guys who beat up one of the actors portraying a gay person as they did not like gays. Or the guys who bombed and shot anyone one with the name El Nino when the great wave El Nino destroyed coastal cities. We have to remember that there are people like that!

 

[snowhead]

We have to remember that there are people like that!

Not forgetting "Free the Weatherfield one" campaign.
Even Politicians got caught up in that.

p.s. some people may need to Google that.

 

[The Ghost]

@FatAlan what is funny? If I may be so bold to ask mmmm.

 

[FatAlan]

@FatAlan what is funny? If I may be so bold to ask mmmm.

I just respect your right as a free man not to vote. Funnily enough I do tend to agree that we are in a time of seismic change and very open manipulation by those in control of the main media outlets etc.