USA politics, recent events.

[GBDamo]

LOL, Never seen such an idiotic post

You must have missed mine then?

 

[MDJ]

I love the banter in general here, it is good we have differing views otherwise it would be so dull, even though I think Trump is a muppet, he was good value for a laugh, every day of his 4 years in office something happened, dozens of people getting the sack for starters, some of his comments were hilarious, however even I cannot argue his love for his country, he was America first, that said the country is more divided now then in the 70s when things were bad there then, I have a feeling he will be back, to me he is a complete joke but to millions of others a hero, a figure that will be remembered in history even in 200 years time for sure.

 

[nicebutdim]

Far enough. However, the rest of his speech just keeps on repeating the same rhetoric about election fraud and the steal etc, and as previously mentioned the tweets beforehand. Enough to inspire the crowd to do what happened IMO.

I do take the point about using terms like 'fight like hell' and its use in general, but whether that was his mens rea or not, that's exactly what happened. Being a man who holds such power or did have, he should of choose his words more carefully.

When I listen to this man, I find his words both arrogant, belittling and offensive. I recall someone posting about how many conflicts previous Presidents had took their country into conflicts, whereas Trump had none. But I wonder how many achievements he's had as a President in comparison?

The speech was heavy on rhetoric and bluster, but nothing that would ordinarily be considered unusual for a politician. I'm not going to claim that some people weren't driven on by his words, but that his words certainly don't come close to incitement of violence.

The contrast with words from many of his political opponents, over the past year, is stark:

Chris Cuomo (CNN Journalist and brother of Democrat Governor of New York) speaking about antifa protesting in NY: "Show me where it says that protests are supposed to be polite and peaceful?"

Nancy Pelosi speaking at 2020 Democrat National Congress: "You've got to be ready to throw a punch."

Maxine Waters (democrat representative) addressing a crowd of supporters: "If you see anybody from that cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd, and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere."

Senator Cory Brooker (democrat) addressing activists: "Get up in the face of some congress people."

Eric Holder (unsuccessful democrat candidate 2020) addressing supporters: "When they go low, we kick them. That's what this new democratic party is about."

Madonna Speaking publicly: "I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house."

Robert DeNero speaking about Trump on video to followers: "I'd like to punch him in the face."

Jonny Depp at public rally: "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"

Kamala Harris during news interview about nationwide protests: "They're not going to stop.... and nor should they."

Nancy Pelosi (speaker of the house): "I don't know why there aren't uprisings all over the country."

Senator Tim Kaine (democrat): "What we've got to do is fight in Congress, fight in the courts, fight in the streets, fight online, fight at the ballot box, and now there's the momentum to be able to do this."


The above quotes could all be considered as direct incitement to (or justification for) violence, but no one seems to be upset by them.


You mention Trump's achievements and that's something that many people refuse to acknowledge. I don't think anyone would deny many of his daft moments, but not starting a single war was unprecedented in recent times. His reigning in of North Korea would have been considered masterful if managed by anyone else. Restoration of diplomatic ties, cordial relations and direct flights between Israel and several middle eastern countries would have been rewarded with a nobel peace prize, again if it had been managed by anyone else - that process is still dividends.

Anyone who thinks that Trump was an unmitigated disaster would do well to pay attention to US foreign policy during the next four years. They'd also do well to watch employment figures in the US, but that will be heavily skewed by the pandemic.

What I'm trying to get at is that Trump wasn't an ideal president, but nor was he evil incarnate. The man bums and blows a bit, but he got stuff done for America and many other countries.

 

[GBDamo]

The speech was heavy on rhetoric and bluster, but nothing that would ordinarily be considered unusual for a politician. I'm not going to claim that some people weren't driven on by his words, but that his words certainly don't come close to incitement of violence.

The contrast with words from many of his political opponents, over the past year, is stark:

Chris Cuomo (CNN Journalist and brother of Democrat Governor of New York) speaking about antifa protesting in NY: "Show me where it says that protests are supposed to be polite and peaceful?"

Nancy Pelosi speaking at 2020 Democrat National Congress: "You've got to be ready to throw a punch."

Maxine Waters (democrat representative) addressing a crowd of supporters: "If you see anybody from that cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd, and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere."

Senator Cory Brooker (democrat) addressing activists: "Get up in the face of some congress people."

Eric Holder (unsuccessful democrat candidate 2020) addressing supporters: "When they go low, we kick them. That's what this new democratic party is about."

Madonna Speaking publicly: "I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house."

Robert DeNero speaking about Trump on video to followers: "I'd like to punch him in the face."

Jonny Depp at public rally: "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"

Kamala Harris during news interview about nationwide protests: "They're not going to stop.... and nor should they."

Nancy Pelosi (speaker of the house): "I don't know why there aren't uprisings all over the country."

Senator Tim Kaine (democrat): "What we've got to do is fight in Congress, fight in the courts, fight in the streets, fight online, fight at the ballot box, and now there's the momentum to be able to do this."


The above quotes could all be considered as direct incitement to (or justification for) violence, but no one seems to be upset by them.


You mention Trump's achievements and that's something that many people refuse to acknowledge. I don't think anyone would deny many of his daft moments, but not starting a single war was unprecedented in recent times. His reigning in of North Korea would have been considered masterful if managed by anyone else. Restoration of diplomatic ties, cordial relations and direct flights between Israel and several middle eastern countries would have been rewarded with a nobel peace prize, again if it had been managed by anyone else - that process is still dividends.

Anyone who thinks that Trump was an unmitigated disaster would do well to pay attention to US foreign policy during the next four years. They'd also do well to watch employment figures in the US, but that will be heavily skewed by the pandemic.

What I'm trying to get at is that Trump wasn't an ideal president, but nor was he evil incarnate. The man bums and blows a bit, but he got stuff done for America and many other countries.

Don't you be bringing reason to a bitch fight, there are entrenched positions to defend here.

 

[Midwest]

Qui bono?

As always who benefits?

That most people do not know that many Republican senators were going to use, rightfully, the counting ceremony as an opportunity to air their objections and get them on record is very telling.

The fact that this "insurrection" allowed the process to be halted and subsequently waived through without contest tell us all we need to know.

My Latin stopped after we tried bombing the Latin teacher with books above the open door on April fools day, so you'll have to guide me here.

 

[Midwest]

The speech was heavy on rhetoric and bluster, but nothing that would ordinarily be considered unusual for a politician. I'm not going to claim that some people weren't driven on by his words, but that his words certainly don't come close to incitement of violence.

The contrast with words from many of his political opponents, over the past year, is stark:

Chris Cuomo (CNN Journalist and brother of Democrat Governor of New York) speaking about antifa protesting in NY: "Show me where it says that protests are supposed to be polite and peaceful?"

Nancy Pelosi speaking at 2020 Democrat National Congress: "You've got to be ready to throw a punch."

Maxine Waters (democrat representative) addressing a crowd of supporters: "If you see anybody from that cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd, and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere."

Senator Cory Brooker (democrat) addressing activists: "Get up in the face of some congress people."

Eric Holder (unsuccessful democrat candidate 2020) addressing supporters: "When they go low, we kick them. That's what this new democratic party is about."

Madonna Speaking publicly: "I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house."

Robert DeNero speaking about Trump on video to followers: "I'd like to punch him in the face."

Jonny Depp at public rally: "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"

Kamala Harris during news interview about nationwide protests: "They're not going to stop.... and nor should they."

Nancy Pelosi (speaker of the house): "I don't know why there aren't uprisings all over the country."

Senator Tim Kaine (democrat): "What we've got to do is fight in Congress, fight in the courts, fight in the streets, fight online, fight at the ballot box, and now there's the momentum to be able to do this."


The above quotes could all be considered as direct incitement to (or justification for) violence, but no one seems to be upset by them.


You mention Trump's achievements and that's something that many people refuse to acknowledge. I don't think anyone would deny many of his daft moments, but not starting a single war was unprecedented in recent times. His reigning in of North Korea would have been considered masterful if managed by anyone else. Restoration of diplomatic ties, cordial relations and direct flights between Israel and several middle eastern countries would have been rewarded with a nobel peace prize, again if it had been managed by anyone else - that process is still dividends.

Anyone who thinks that Trump was an unmitigated disaster would do well to pay attention to US foreign policy during the next four years. They'd also do well to watch employment figures in the US, but that will be heavily skewed by the pandemic.

What I'm trying to get at is that Trump wasn't an ideal president, but nor was he evil incarnate. The man bums and blows a bit, but he got stuff done for America and many other countries.

I'd have to google his achievements, think most of them were stated by someone else, including the Wall. Not sure what he achieved with North Korea, apart from a tourist trip.

 

[GBDamo]

My Latin stopped after we tried bombing the Latin teacher with books above the open door on April fools day, so you'll have to guide me here.

I did its in the second line, who benefits.

You see to believe events were as we are being told you have to believe that,

1, The fanaticalTrump supporters were more interested in torching the Capitol than listening to their Fuhrer speak.

2, They were so stupid that they didn't realise their actions would prevent their case being heard in a full official setting and allow the Dems to push through the electoral college count unopposed.

Or...

Trump deliberately delayed and dragged out his speech keeping the vast majority of his supporters a 45 minute walk away from the Capitol.

The Orchestrated 'insurrection' had to go ahead as there were too many unstoppable wheels in motion and the protest speeches were going on at the count.

The Agent Provocateurs were allowed entry followed by a rag tag buch of professional protesters in MAGA hats and possibly a few stray Trump supporters.

The count was suspended and completed behind close doors.

All the Republican planned challenges were not heard, the evidence of fraud is still not on record.

The media can continue to proclaim there are no credible allegations of fraud.


All the consequences of the "Insurrection" benefitted the Democrats and, despite the allegations laid out in the latest sham impeachment' Trump actually did everything in his power to keep his supporters away from the Capitol.

 

[Darkwood]

While every man and his dog in the media throw dirt at Trump, mainly for his loose lips here is a declassified investigation into the Biden's in particularly Hunter (Presidents son) while Joe Biden was Vice President for Obama.

It exposes corruption and fraud where Joe Biden was well aware and also part of the sequence of events.

The USA has now got a president that is closely linked to corruption and money laundering with foreign states while he was Vice president exposing very strong links to the CCP and in other documents we find his family in receipt of large financial sums through corrupt deals, it is no coincidence that some of the first Executive Orders Biden signed bring foreign nations in particular China back into the USA energy market reversing the independence Trump had created and why Biden shut down a pipeline link to Canada crushing 50,000 job, but of course you know that already, you saw that in the news didn't you ?????
Trump should not have ever been president as it wasn't the way it had been set up but so high was public anger at the establishment that even in the face of underhand tactics by the dem's and foreign states it still wasn't enough to stop Trump... a mistake they ensured would not happen again.

If you understand the names and the Burisma scandal you will be blown away at the level of corruption Obama and Biden were involved in, this is just a sample, it is lengthy and mentions names that you may be unfamiliar with which is key to understanding it all but for a concise conclusion go to P86

https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC%20-%20Finance%20Joint%20Report%202020.09.23.pdf

 

[nicebutdim]

And there are a couple of other serious scandals surrounding Hunter.

 

[Midwest]

While every man and his dog in the media throw dirt at Trump, mainly for his loose lips here is a declassified investigation into the Biden's in particularly Hunter (Presidents son) while Joe Biden was Vice President for Obama.

It exposes corruption and fraud where Joe Biden was well aware and also part of the sequence of events.

The USA has now got a president that is closely linked to corruption and money laundering with foreign states while he was Vice president exposing very strong links to the CCP and in other documents we find his family in receipt of large financial sums through corrupt deals, it is no coincidence that some of the first Executive Orders Biden signed bring foreign nations in particular China back into the USA energy market reversing the independence Trump had created and why Biden shut down a pipeline link to Canada crushing 50,000 job, but of course you know that already, you saw that in the news didn't you ?????
Trump should not have ever been president as it wasn't the way it had been set up but so high was public anger at the establishment that even in the face of underhand tactics by the dem's and foreign states it still wasn't enough to stop Trump... a mistake they ensured would not happen again.

If you understand the names and the Burisma scandal you will be blown away at the level of corruption Obama and Biden were involved in, this is just a sample, it is lengthy and mentions names that you may be unfamiliar with which is key to understanding it all but for a concise conclusion go to P86

https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC%20-%20Finance%20Joint%20Report%202020.09.23.pdf

I don’t see why you are obsessed with the idea that all news/media etc are always wrong and providing false information. You as an individual can’t be providing the sole source of information, for the forum to believe it’s true and factual. You see this report and decide, everything in it is substantial and true.

If a loved is missing or something you care about, and someone tells you they’ve seen them, you want to believe them.

I read & watch the news etc and make my own decision, knowing sometimes the truth can never get in the way of a good story.

I recall this report coming out before the campaign started. I recall it’s been based on a report by two Trump supporters, with countless claims, but would appear to have little actual evidence to support these claims.

If there is any truth in these claims, then further investigation should happen. This report, it is a report not a proper investigation, should be viewed carefully.

Seems not all Republicans agreed on its time of release;

Senator Ron Johnson pulls vote on subpoena in Biden/Ukraine investigation

The Senate Homeland Security Committee did authorize subpoenas related to the probe into the FBI's Russia investigation.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Darkwood]

@Midwest

Again you make a leap from me pointing out obvious bias to assuming I think the media is always wrong, at no point have I said that or made that claim, in regards to this topic I have on several occasions expressed that the media chooses the information it puts out and what it ignores, this means a public information source can easily manipulate the consumer to see a person or subject matter from one one angle only, this does not mean the information they provide is wrong simply their coverage lacks balance and thus is bias, now given that the BBC's own internal investigations have shown this on numerous occasions and especially on Brexit it is not merely an accusation but point of fact.

The link you supply is merely evidence of the relentless attempt to bury the story as it could destroy Biden, it is not about whether it is true anymore, we know it is, Joe Biden is on video gloating about it himself, we also must remember that in the USA like the UK particular parties have members that do not agree with their own party direction, in a sense they will vote with the opposition in critical matters, this is common and has no reflection on if something has more substance because a member of his own party went awol, over here we have the party whip to try maintain common direction but in the US they don't.

The link you gave proves clearly my point I have made and the last paragraph is telling, it does not deny the allegations or any of the findings it is complaining it could undermine the recent election and the outcome but ain't that what it should be about, if someone is guilty while in office you cannot really blame the opposition for using it when it favours them the most can you.

 

[Darkwood]

Here is the moment Biden openly admits to abusing his political position of vice president to protect his son in an investigation of corruption.
Watch Biden Brag About Bribing Ukraine To Fire Investigator Of Son's Biz - https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/24/watch-joe-biden-brag-about-bribing-ukraine-to-fire-the-prosecutor-investigating-his-sons-company/

Here is a report that the company has admitted in court it bribed Biden, and that any disputes are simply about the size of the bribe not that it too place or not, I have the actual list of payments and it is more than the stated 50,000 but that info has only been leaked recently so the 50,000 was estimated at the time hence the dispute.

Burisma admits in court that it bribed Joe and Hunter Biden

A developing story about the case of Ukrainian gas holding company Burisma against People’s Deputy of Ukraine Andriy Derkach has revealed that Burisma did, in fact, bribe Joe and Hunter Biden with large cash payments. The only question is how much did these two crooks receive? In its dismissal...

corruption.news

Now I have the transcripts of some of the legal proceedings but these reports by the media simplify the task of translating what is hours of reading, it is clearly published as a statement of fact not an allegation and this must be noted as the publisher would be in a lot of legal trouble if it had made this up.

 

[Midwest]

Your exposé came a few months ago, and the few reports I could be bothered to read, says there is little evidence to support the claims.

If there is, I’m sure it will come out in the wash, you can say I told you so.

 

[nicebutdim]

I don’t see why you are obsessed with the idea that all news/media etc are always wrong and providing false information. You as an individual can’t be providing the sole source of information, for the forum to believe it’s true and factual. You see this report and decide, everything in it is substantial and true.

If a loved is missing or something you care about, and someone tells you they’ve seen them, you want to believe them.

I read & watch the news etc and make my own decision, knowing sometimes the truth can never get in the way of a good story.

On the subject of media bias, I'd point to the video of Trump's speech and how many news outlets had cut short the clip where he called for supporters to "peacefully and patriotically" make their voices heard and instead focused on discussing his edited words.

You had rightly pointed out that transcripts could be edited and seemed to be unaware of the actual words spoken, yet I was able to provide video evidence to confirm those words. What better example could be given of selective reporting, than this very thread demonstrating how your own perception of events had been skewed?


That story about Biden and Ukraine? Would you believe me if I told you that Biden sat on a stage at the Council for Foreign Relations and recounted how he pressured Ukraine's government into firing the prosecutor that was investigating his son? It's out there on the most public of platforms - Youtube.

 

[Midwest]

Yep I’ve seen the vid.

I‘m not sure that shows what you are suggesting. He wanted the authorities to take ‘action’ against their State Prosecutor. So the inference is, he wanted to remove the Prosecutor who was investigating wrong doing by his son, then braggs about it on tv?

Here’s another view;

Does a video show Joe Biden confessing to bribery? No

A reader asked, "How come Joe Biden is on film bragging about getting the Prosecutor investigating Burisma fired and fac

www.politifact.com