Voltage Optimisation

[wiggly]

thanks for all the responses didint expect such a wide split in opinion.

Taking all comments and what i have read my opinion is this is a product that can be honestly sold to client. Using marketing this will get us in front off clients possibly up sell to a pv system or upgrade there consumer unit. I.E. work for 3 qualified electricians and some profit...............
So my question now Should it be voltis or vphase or is there an alternative available.

wiggly

 

[matt25]

I'd go with with whichever provides the best marketing literature for you to sell the product. Hard to say which is best, as you have already noticed! Great thread...... oh and im perfectly happy with my vphase!

 

[edexlab]

Julian I'm not out to have a go but I am a sceptic with this in my view the technology is proven in the right application /installation

I've only read the threads and some manufacturers info and therefore remain on the fence somewhat as to the viability of these in domestic/similar properties
So what I'm interested in is that as you say its made a 7-8% saving for you so did you monitor your usage for a long period of time before fitting the unit and afterwards and does this accurately reflect the seasonal changes and use of property ie you're now working from home it may have been monitored through the winter before fitting compared to summer usage post fitting etc
I'm not trying to say your figures/monitoring are flawed in anyway I just want to have a better picture of a real life installation coming from an electrician and customer rather than what the manufacturers sales people claim as in my experience they usually talk a lot of rubbish and like others on here would like to hear of any realistic case studies before offering them to customers.
At ecobuild last year the vphase bloke was adamant that the usable load limit before it went into bypass on their units was 90 amps until I pointed it out to him in the brochure he'd just given to me I wasn't impressed !.

 

[JulianC]

No probs. I'm basing it on 4 month's worth of weekly consumption figures vs. the same 4 month period a year ago, before it was fitted. We have carried out no energy efficiency measures in that time. Lights all CFL, gas cooker, central heating and hot water. Usual fridge/freezer/washing machine/LCD TV/hifi/Marshall stack/2 computers and a laptop. A year ago I worked for someone else and the house was empty most of the day. Now I work from home and have a PC or two on when in and occasionally set the heating pump a-running. I have not accounted for changes in weather, shifts of the earth on its axis, phases of the moon or enhanced druid activity in the local park.

I did also, on the odd occasion soon after installation, dangle my clamp-on round the tails and saw, when the thing kicked in, the current either remain fairly static, rise a small amount or indeed rise in proportion to the voltage dropping. Depends what loads were on at the time.

Nothing terribly scientific I'm afraid, cos I can't really be arsed. However, my electricity bill has dropped in response to fitting a Voltis.

Like I've said before, I was fairly sceptical about these things. I was spurred on to try one out purely to see if the quite frankly staggering amount of vitriol for these things on this forum was warranted. Even now I suspect I'm seen as lying or misguided in the eyes of those who think ohm's law is the be-all-and-end-all of electrical consumption. I am however satisfied that the Voltis is saving me money. I have a degree in electrical and electronic engineering, most of which I have forgotten over the years, but I remember enough of it to know I don't know everything. I therefore tend to reserve judgement on something until I see evidence. In this case I am happy it works. For me. In my circumstances.

Look, just try one. If it's something you intend to offer your customers in the future, the outlay to demo one yourself is minimal and you will be able to judge for yourselves if these things work or not.

 

[Glen Powell]

Haven't read all the posts since my last one, however as most of are sparkies on here it may be an opportunity to do some more accurate testing, and this could be done on a simple 3 pin plug apperatus (for testing only) my thoughts is to get the system and make a test bench with a number of bulbs on a timer with the vphase, 2 way consumer, elster meter and timer.

1 week at 8 hours a day with vphase, one week 8 hours a day without then look at the difference % wise.

Again another project I am willing to try should I find the time.

 

[UNG]

Julian keep your head in the clouds and keep dreaming !!!!

 

[SolarCity]

Keep your head in the clouds and keep dreaming !!!!

And if Glen's experiment suggests that it works?

Some of the opposition to this is bordering on the dogmatic.

 

[Glen Powell]

Just thought though It will have to be hard wired, dont someone unplugging it to charge their mobile.

 

[Earthstore]

Make sure you use the right kind of light bulbs, or you may get some other law of physics pointed out why you test is flawed....

 

[brman]

I am not quite sure what UNG means about laws of physics. The laws of physics say it principle that it will work for a lot of loads. The only argument is whether the mix of loads and the efficiency of the converter will in practice show the affect. Unfortunately that is a lot down to the user so it is hard to get a definitive answer.

 

[Glen Powell]

As with the notice on the front page of this site there is no need for anyone getting personal, it is a scientific issue, I can see how this device will work it is very simple on certain aspects.

think back to school you have a light bulb where you can reduce the voltage and the light will dim but it will still work just not as bright, my concern is the efficiency in the way the voltage is reduced.

I can do a test on light bulbs and yes it will reduce your consumption of electricity but however it will also reduce the output of said device. if I do the same on a washing machine or a motor (AC) this will not happen as I do beleive on AC motors you can only modulate power to try and reduce power but in turn this will only do half the job.

I am a great beleiver in the Laws Of Physics however it is possible for the technology to reduce the voltage and current to the likes of lighting, etc. without massive effect.

 

[Dan the spark]

Hi guys, sorry to bring this thread back to life but I had a call today from a customer that has read about these vphase units and is asking me if I could install it. Reading thru the posts it looks like there are better ways to spend the money to save energy ie led lights.
The thing is this house isn't ur standard size, it's 8 bedroom gymnasium with saunas swimming pool etc so I was wondering if the returns mat be better on a house this size?
Also before I go too far, it has a 3phase supply so is there such a device or do u have to install one per phase.
Sorry again lads but just wanna do the best for the customer and don't wanna be seen to be installing something that isn't really gonna be making much savings.
Cheers, Dan

 

[spark 68]

If you have a sub board/s split into SP, then you could use one per sub-board (per phase), otherwise you will require a TP one (from a different maker).

The V-Phase unit also goes into bypass mode above 20A, there are better ones.

Like others on here, I consider these 'snake oil' and don't want to get drawn into the why's and wherefore's again.

I think there are some savings to be had mainly on incandescent lighting (just not what the manufacturer says!), but I just don't think the outlay is worth it, the money could be better spent IMO on greater savings such as LED lighting etc.

 

[Dan the spark]

Yeah saw that in reading the posts, I'm in te same opinion really, just thought I'd do a bit of research before going to try and explain to the customer, cheers for the reply

 

[Earthstore]

Dan, you can not install 3 separate units on a 3 phase system if there is equipment that is "3 phase", ie motors etc, because if one unit goes into bypass then you can get back feed to the other 2 because of unequal phases.
When you switch 3 phase supplies on or off, you should always switch all 3 at the same time if the phases are shared.

Voltis are going to produce a 3 phase unit which will operate all 3 phases at the same time, but may be around 12 months before it is available.

As pointed out before the vphase unit gets wired into the CU on dedicated circuits only, as the Voltis just goes into the tails so is a simple install, and all circuits run through it.
I hope this helps.