Who Are You?

[HandySparks]

This poll is for all Forum members. Please read the poll carefully and then choose the best description in the context of your membership of the forum. I can't include all options, so you might like to go into more detail by posting in the thread.

The poll is confidential (forum names are not visible).

For the purposes of the poll:
'Apprenticeship' means a pre-planned formal arrangement for multiple years of structured classroom and on-the-job training.
'Short Course' means a concentrated course of less than 6 weeks of mostly classroom based learning. (Just a C&G 2381 / 2382 'regs' course doesn't count.)
'Electrician' means anyone doing hands-on installation, maintenance, repair or testing of electrical systems (normally for payment) and includes 'domestic installer'.

 

[Harni]

Yeah funnily enough this guy is now a good friend of mine. I think his girlfriend (who also worked there) basically told him to stop being a complete ----- to everyone! Its no way to manage people. Its just bullying and no one should stand for it.

 

[7029 dave]

No 'approved' or 'technician' listed, I see. They used to be the terms used for those completing the 'full set' of A, B and C certs. How things change, eh!

A - Electrician
B - Approved electrician
C - Technician

I have B, could not be arsed to do the C, just wanted to show them what I could do practically. Not an boffin . lol

 

[Engineer54]

I think I have already stated my position reasonably clearly in that lack of registration does not preclude you being an Engineer. Certainly in the Armed Forces there are many who could register as CEng or IEng but choose not to do so as it does not have any bearing on their role in the forces and would simply amount to a yearly fee for nothing. With my quals and experience I could have registered as IEng but chose not to do so.

Do you seriously expect Forces personnel to register for a membership that would do nothing for them?

Edit.. Having seen your answer to my question of 'are you a chartered engineer?' on another part of the forum it would appear that you are as I originally thought 'willy wanging' your registered status.

Haha!! i told you i don't need to willy wangle anything, and i certainly don't need to lie about my professional credentials or status. You just don't get to run the type of projects i work on without professional status, end of.

It's generally people like yourself that come out with all the crap about being and calling themselves an Engineer, but choose not register themselves as such, because of this that and the other. I've heard the same bull s**t lines and stories for bloody years....

 

[Knobhead]

Don't know what you are trying to 'rub in'. I have rarely found the need to shout loud except when in the vicinity of machinery, or gunfire.
I've never mentioned letters after my name. The reason is I have none.

And I doubt your team would follow you if as you state if you were constantly calling them "minions" or "muppets" to their faces. I expect that in real life such words were rarely used face to face.

You overlooked this bit:

The big difference was my team were on my side, they knew I’d push them hard to get that bonus in their pocket.

It's where management skills come in to play. Knowing how to get the best from people with the least amount of fuss.

You’re just like my shift counterparts were. Fixed in your military mindset. If the qualifications aren’t on offer in the NAFFI at cut price I’m going to shout about it. The forces have fixed you up with the cut price short cut ticket to nowhere.

As for letters after your name you were haranguing E54 over engineer status saying you decided against it on cost, more fool you. You could have gone in to a good job and wrecked that with military efficiency instead of wrecking unsuspecting people’s homes with military ineptitude.

Thank god I missed out on national service, I too could have had an attitude like yours.

 

[jimmymac]

That as a statement is inherently correct.

However, the real question we are trying to answer is should those qualified and experienced who could register but do not be calling themselves Engineers. This is of particular relevance to the Armed Forces where there is no benefit to registering, only a financial downside.

To put it another way, should a time served qualified electrician be calling himself an electrician if he is not registered with some body or other be it JIB or a CPS.

Thanks! Glad you agree! So your not an engineer then?

I don't think it's fair to compare the two professions in that way, it's clearly harder to become an Engineer than an Electrician but in both cases you would need to meet the criteria to register as such. In the case of electrician you must possess the relevant skills and experience, in the case of Engineer you must have achieved an academic level (such as an Engineering degree) or achieved a lower academic level (HND) and have shed loads of experience, that's how I see it

 

[andyelectric]

You overlooked this bit:



It's where management skills come in to play. Knowing how to get the best from people with the least amount of fuss.

You’re just like my shift counterparts were. Fixed in your military mindset. If the qualifications aren’t on offer in the NAFFI at cut price I’m going to shout about it. The forces have fixed you up with the cut price short cut ticket to nowhere.

As for letters after your name you were haranguing E54 over engineer status saying you decided against it on cost, more fool you. You could have gone in to a good job and wrecked that with military efficiency instead of wrecking unsuspecting people’s homes with military ineptitude.

Thank god I missed out on national service, I too could have had an attitude like yours.

Well, in your last couple of posts you've moved on to ranting I feel. Let's get back on track.

In two posts you called your workers first "minions" and then "muppets". I called into question that you would dare to talk to your workers like that face to face. Your assertion that you would shows you to be a porky pie teller as a boss like that would soon get put in his place.

Of course, their is the slight chance you might be of such a troll size no worker would stand up to you, but it's far more likely you are just a sad internet troll.

 

[andyelectric]

Thanks! Glad you agree! So your not an engineer then?

I don't think it's fair to compare the two professions in that way, it's clearly harder to become an Engineer than an Electrician but in both cases you would need to meet the criteria to register as such. In the case of electrician you must possess the relevant skills and experience, in the case of Engineer you must have achieved an academic level (such as an Engineering degree) or achieved a lower academic level (HND) and have shed loads of experience, that's how I see it

I agree I am not a registered Engineer, I have always made that clear. If you infer that only registered engineers should be able to call themselves an Engineer then that is subject to opinion and ours obviously differ. I don't think there is much point discussing this issue further as there will never be agreement.

 

[Engineer54]

Originally Posted by andyelectric
That as a statement is inherently correct.

However, the real question we are trying to answer is should those qualified and experienced who could register but do not be calling themselves Engineers. This is of particular relevance to the Armed Forces where there is no benefit to registering, only a financial downside.

To put it another way, should a time served qualified electrician be calling himself an electrician if he is not registered with some body or other be it JIB or a CPS
​

That depends if you are employed in the industrial sector, especially within an in-house maintenance team the JIB/SJIB cards would be pretty pointless cards to carry. If however you are a qualified electrician working on most if not all of the bigger projects and the like, you wouldn't be able to get on the site let alone work as an electrician without the appropriate registration cards.

I think you'll find that most of the fully qualified contracting electricians hold such JIB cards, or have at least held them at some point in time. Many would have completed all their training with a JIB registered contractor/company....

As for the rest, any electrician that has completed a level 3 foundation technical course and has the relevant skills and experience can quite legitimately call themselves 'an ''Electrician''

I also think you are also mistaken with armed services Engineers. There are many Registered Professional Engineers within the Royal Engineers and are encouraged to become registered!! I know that for a fact!!​

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As far as I'm aware, anyone can call themselves an electrician, though to my mind to be an electrician, they should be conducting electrical work for remuneration.

 

[andyelectric]

That depends if you are employed in the industrial sector, especially within an in-house maintenance team the JIB/SJIB cards would be pretty pointless cards to carry. If however you are a qualified electrician working on most if not all of the bigger projects and the like, you wouldn't be able to get on the site let alone work as an electrician without the appropriate registration cards.

I think you'll find that most of the fully qualified contracting electricians hold such JIB cards, or have at least held them at some point in time. Many would have completed all their training with a JIB registered contractor/company....

As for the rest, any electrician that has completed a level 3 foundation technical course and has the relevant skills and experience can quite legitimately call themselves 'an ''Electrician''

I also think you are also mistaken with armed services Engineers. There are many Registered Professional Engineers within the Royal Engineers and are encouraged to become registered!! I know that for a fact!![/INDENT]

I would say your answer that any electrician who has relevant quals/experience can call themself an electrician would also apply to Engineers. This is a personal opinion and it is clear thay some would say only registered engineers should call themselves such.

It may well be that my experience in the RN does not hold broadly across the whole armed forces and I have been culpable of a generalisation re registration. Shows that generalising can be wrong I suppose.

The RN is slightly strange in that those who could register as Chartered Engineer would normally be higher level managers with absolutely no hands on experience.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Ditto with the RAF.

 

[jimmymac]

I agree I am not a registered Engineer, I have always made that clear. If you infer that only registered engineers should be able to call themselves an Engineer then that is subject to opinion and ours obviously differ. I don't think there is much point discussing this issue further as there will never be agreement.

Fair enough, just putting my view across, no harm intended.

P.S, I'm right, your wrong!

 

[trev]

In order that the engineer/not an engineer debate could be settled once and for all beyond all reasonable doubt I have tirelessly searched the interwebs for more than 5 minutes. This is the result of my extensive research and imo there can be no doubt.
You are either an engineer or you are not.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=lrq1yfHWkvzPuBXgq5UqXg&bvm=bv.82001339,d.ZGU

 

[HandySparks]

In compensation for starting this thread, I'll follow trev's fine example and inject some levity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8vHhgh6oM0

Apologies if you've seen it before.

 

[andyelectric]

In order that the engineer/not an engineer debate could be settled once and for all beyond all reasonable doubt I have tirelessly searched the interwebs for more than 5 minutes. This is the result of my extensive research and imo there can be no doubt.
You are either an engineer or you are not.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=lrq1yfHWkvzPuBXgq5UqXg&bvm=bv.82001339,d.ZGU

I think we'll take that as settled then trev thanks to your diligent research efforts.