Who owns a grade card?

[Guest77]

Just wondering after seeing a few threads of late regarding them, I am aware it is a gold card today, out of interest who has a grade card of somekind? post up what you have, lets see how many on the forum is actually a card holder, just out of interest, it doesn't mean much, I know several brilliant sparks who never even did an apprenticeship, they are retired now though.


I will start, I am a JIB gold card holder with Site Technician stamped on mine, next please.

 

[telectrix]

not for me, mate. done 17th at 64. semi-retired now. future quals will wash over me like the tide.

 

[Guest77]

not for me, mate. done 17th at 64. semi-retired now. future quals will wash over me like the tide.

I take my hat off to you tel, much respect Mate, there are not many 64 year olds who would take an exam, your a roll model for the youngsters.

 

[Engineer54]

If when you trained a nvq wasn't avaliable maybe a investment in one would be worthwhile I would call that modernising your qualifications.


I was was trainined to the 16th, I didn't stop there I got a 17th qual no drama saw it as keeping my cv and knowledge up to date. When the next edition comes along I will do that too.

There was no such thing as NVQ's or AM's during my time of training. And as far as i'm aware the JIB have never required a NVQ/AM2 from graduates of that era. Why, ...because they wasn't needed!! Indentured apprentices got all the training and work experience from college and the qualified electricians they were mentored by, on the varied site work they were put on. As i see it, what you're calling ''modernisation of qualifications'' would in fact, be a retro step for most of the old timers that are still on the tools...

Personally i wouldn't trust most of these NVQ 3 courses that are out there, as far as i can see they are totally open to abuse and fraud by the unscrupulous....

 

[UNG]

If when you trained a nvq wasn't avaliable maybe a investment in one would be worthwhile I would call that modernising your qualifications.


I was was trainined to the 16th, I didn't stop there I got a 17th qual no drama saw it as keeping my cv and knowledge up to date. When the next edition comes along I will do that too.

I always think that the acronym NVQ left it wide open to other interpretations

Like........ Not Very Qualified

 

[djw]

I take my hat off to you tel, much respect Mate, there are not many 64 year olds who would take an exam, your a roll model for the youngsters.

Could apply to some of us old 'uns :wink5:

As for me - 2360 1/2, AM1, NVQ2, plus 16 yrs in the trade - 12 yrs away from it - so no Gold card for me then!

 

[wozz]

There was no such thing as NVQ's or AM's during my time of training. And as far as i'm aware the JIB have never required a NVQ/AM2 from graduates of that era. Why, ...because they wasn't needed!! Indentured apprentices got all the training and work experience from college and the qualified electricians they were mentored by, on the varied site work they were put on. As i see it, what you're calling ''modernisation of qualifications'' would in fact, be a retro step for most of the old timers that are still on the tools...

Personally i wouldn't trust most of these NVQ 3 courses that are out there, as far as i can see they are totally open to abuse and fraud by the unscrupulous....

Unfortunately times change as do costs, when i did mine we had one visit a month lasting an hour and if one a site that would be shard by 4-5 apprentices. The evidence required for a nvq actually ensures you are on site almost certainly with a degree of mentoring or supervision.

Of course it can be open to abuse but look at the reaction of some to pay £600, if i offered a in depth nvq3 course where i could afford to spend hours each week ensuring apprentices were learning and being supervised and charged £3K would i have any takers i think not.

As for adding to your CV with a recognized qualification being a step back i dont see it.

As we have established from the early 80s it has been offered.

So the only people without it would be those:

1. like i went to college who opted out as they didnt have time (wasnt employed in the industry) and not interested in doing the 4 years, just wanted city and guilds
2. Electrical Trainee
3. Those before early 80s
4. Some sort of mishap can imagine there would be many of those

A NVQ3 is a benchmark showing a sustained period of real work experience usually under supervision in a variety of working environments and with different systems. Those that knock it, havnt got it and cant get a JIB card must fit into the list above.

It makes me laugh when people knock them for trying to uphold some sort of standard. Especially time served old sparks who were not offered it ,cant you see its what separates alot of us on paper from the Electrical Trainee.

Numbers wise it helps alot more people than it hinders, unfortunately those that struggle to get it a fairly vocal about it knocking the system that is upholding the standard while everyone else is in a race to the bottom.

 

[wozz]

I always think that the acronym NVQ left it wide open to other interpretations

Like........ Not Very Qualified

Not knocking you personally as i know its a term that is used widely but:

I always think that comments like that above are childish and usually come from those who have not completed one.

 

[UNG]

Not knocking you personally as i know its a term that is used widely but:

I always think that comments like that above are childish and usually come from those who have not completed one.

You are correct I have not completed one and have no intention of completing one. A friend of my sister in law is a qualified teacher and an NVQ assessor she applied for another post and was told she wasn't qualified for the post as she didn't have an NVQ 3 and being an assessor didn't count for anything that's the farce of it

It's a bit like the AM2 I have employed few apprentices and they tell me how hard it was and made various excuses when they failed one lad failed a paper based fault finding exercise that had 2 and a bit hours allocated to it and told me I would struggle he brought the book in and it took me 15 minutes while sorting out the days work for the sparks and sorting a few problems they were having on a site

I'm glad I served my time when I did all I had was a CITB logbook to fill in and periodically the CITB man turned up to review it got my A, B and C from 5 years at college and done various other courses over the years.

It's not just this industry that wants you to forget what you have learned and start again there are plenty of others this "modernise your qualifications" is IMO someone trying to justify a new course or training regime it was said in the early eighties that training was taking a turn for the worse and how right we were you only have to look where we are at now with "modernised qualifications" pay your money you can get a cert.

 

[Knobhead]

not for me, mate. done 17th at 64. semi-retired now. future quals will wash over me like the tide.

I was bored, did the 17th after I retired.

 

[wozz]

Im glad you didnt take offence as that was not my intention just getting my point across.

The AM2 wasnt easy but it wasnt hard either, an extra hour would have been nice but i was always about quality rather than quantity in my work.

Can i ask when you did your CITB?

Why would you be forgetting anything by doing a NVQ3??? I just dont get that comment, its simply a portfolio of work you have done with explanations no need to forget what you have done previously.

As for justifying a NEW course????????????? We have a member on here who did it in the early 80s, so its been around 34 YEARS if i had a car that was 34 years old would that be considered new?

 

[Engineer54]

As for adding to your CV with a recognized qualification being a step back i dont see it.

As we have established from the early 80s it has been offered.

So the only people without it would be those:

I don't suppose you have any idea why these NVQ's came about in the first place have you?? They came about to give the then 6 month fast track wannabes some form of accreditation!! They have gradually been extended and manipulated over the years to extract money from new & existing electricians that have been in the industry for years.

As i stated above, those old time indentured electricians ''Didn't Need'', nor have ever needed any installation NVQ!! All the skills and work experience was gained as part and parcel of the Real apprenticeships and the college training of that time. Don't make the mistake of considering that apprenticeships and the college training of then and now are the same, ....they ain't not by any stretch of the imagination... lol!!

The majority of these NVQ-3 courses rely far too much on photo's, logbooks and signatures, all of which is too open to abuse. I'm sure there are good courses out there, where everything is checked and double checked to ensure no abuse is being committed, but nah, ....i'm not convinced, ...sorry!!

 

[sparkie141]

SJIB Gold Card - Approved Expires October 2016.
Proper 4 year apprenticeship.
Feel sorry for what has happened to the trade south of the border.

 

[Wiresandthings]

djw- your the only other one on here who mentions the am1, i did this too, was never any mention of am2 at the time, never heard if am1 since either does it still exist as a pre cursor to the am2??

 

[Guest77]

djw- your the only other one on here who mentions the am1, i did this too, was never any mention of am2 at the time, never heard if am1 since either does it still exist as a pre cursor to the am2??

I did the AM1 as well

 

[wozz]

I don't suppose you have any idea why these NVQ's came about in the first place have you?? They came about to give the then 6 month fast track wannabes some form of accreditation!! They have gradually been extended and manipulated over the years to extract money from new & existing electricians that have been in the industry for years.

As i stated above, those old time indentured electricians ''Didn't Need'', nor have ever needed any installation NVQ!! All the skills and work experience was gained as part and parcel of the Real apprenticeships and the college training of that time. Don't make the mistake of considering that apprenticeships and the college training of then and now are the same, ....they ain't not by any stretch of the imagination... lol!!

The majority of these NVQ-3 courses rely far too much on photo's, logbooks and signatures, all of which is too open to abuse. I'm sure there are good courses out there, where everything is checked and double checked to ensure no abuse is being committed, but nah, ....i'm not convinced, ...sorry!!

So in the 80s and before you had 6 month fast track teaching? sound like the Electrical Trainee isnt a new thing then.

I didnt hang around with mine and it took far longer than 6 months, and was apart of a 4 year apprenticeship. Didnt cost me a penny was apart of my apprenticeship as was the AM2 so no money extraction there.

As i was doing a apprenticeship would you say i didnt need to do the nvq? You seem in favour of getting rid of it as its not needed but then go on to say to its too easy to fake.

So which is it? a nvq where you provide evidence or a system where you provide none? Do you have a better idea than the nvq? shall we have a new system? however then i can use all your arguements for me not to have to do it. Shall we have a closer montiored system thats costs loads more, hmm cant see that helping the industry, or shall we support the system we have which can serve a purpose but it often knocked by those without it, or those who done a previous incarnation over 34 years ago and will carry on as they dont think its as good?

Im sure some people have fabricated parts of theirs i know i wouldnt have got away with it with the eagle eye tutors we had, and the company i worked for definitely wouldnt have let me get away with it.

The NVQ is what separates me and others for the last 34 years from the Electrical Trainee and yet the older members want to knock it i just dont not get it.

 

[Engineer54]

A NVQ3 is a benchmark showing a sustained period of real work experience usually under supervision in a variety of working environments and with different systems. Those that knock it, havnt got it and cant get a JIB card must fit into the list above.

That's what some would like the NVQ system to represent, unfortunately the assessment system doesn't work to well!! Usually under supervision is a perfect example of what i'm talking about!!


It makes me laugh when people knock them for trying to uphold some sort of standard. Especially time served old sparks who were not offered it ,cant you see its what separates alot of us on paper from the Electrical Trainee.

Laugh all you like, i wouldn't mind if the standard you talk about, could be classified as even remotely uniform unfortunately it's not!! No, what separates electricians from wannabe electricians is holding a full core qualification. As far as i know, even a Electrical Trainee can spend money to gain a NVQ 3...

Numbers wise it helps alot more people than it hinders, unfortunately those that struggle to get it a fairly vocal about it knocking the system that is upholding the standard while everyone else is in a race to the bottom.

You'll always get that ellement, but that's not what i'm talking about at all!!

My point is that far too much trust has been put on this NVQ 3, which in some ways has been accepted as a sort of alternative to real world experience and skill making...

I'd be much happier if these NVQ's were part and parcel of apprenticeships, where ongoing assessments are being made by the college tutors/lecturers, but hell, even some of them leave a lot to be desired these days!! lol!!

 

[UNG]

Im glad you didnt take offence as that was not my intention just getting my point across.

No harm in a good debate

The AM2 wasnt easy but it wasnt hard either, an extra hour would have been nice but i was always about quality rather than quantity in my work.

The AM2 wasn't hard a bit over rated TBH from an employer point of view always thought the time needed reducing myself

Can i ask when you did your CITB?

76 through to 1980

Why would you be forgetting anything by doing a NVQ3??? I just dont get that comment, its simply a portfolio of work you have done with explanations no need to forget what you have done previously.

Everything is a bit 1984 these days old quals bad new quals good

A lot of what I have previously done has long since been demolished to make way for modern fall apart buildings or closed down.

Do I really need to pay someone hundreds of pounds for

The electrical NVQ is a support, mentoring and assessment programme to help you gain this qualification whilst working on site.

I think I and a few others are long past needing support and mentoring and some one assessing our photgraphic skills

As for justifying a NEW course????????????? We have a member on here who did it in the early 80s, so its been around 34 YEARS if i had a car that was 34 years old would that be considered new?

And no doubt over that time it has been tinkered with let's face it standards are nothing like they were 34 years ago

 

[mayfair]

Got a spanishy sort of one

 

[wozz]

I'd be much happier if these NVQ's were part and parcel of apprenticeships, where ongoing assessments are being made by the college tutors/lecturers, but hell, even some of them leave a lot to be desired these days!! lol!!

I think you will find they have now, the city and guilds award includes to NVQ so you cant do one without the other. Its not the nvqs fault colleges allowed students to do the city and guilds and slope off without doing the nvq.

 

[Guest77]

No idea when the NVQ came out. I took the 236 parts 1 and 2, the C cert and the AM1 and AM2 initially, it was 10 years after being qualified as a spark I heard about the NVQ 3, this was in the early 90s, I sent my certs off and they came back with a NVQ 3 certificate with them, at that time the grades I had were sufficient to gain that qualification. Regarding it's merit today, I don't think many guys have any respect for it, the JIB card always was the bench mark.

 

[djw]

djw- your the only other one on here who mentions the am1, i did this too, was never any mention of am2 at the time, never heard if am1 since either does it still exist as a pre cursor to the am2??

Same here mate, no mention of it, just some mutterings about NVQ3. Don't know if it still exists
as such, no one mentions it - maybe someone who's in training now will tell us and what it consists of at the moment...

 

[ipf]

No idea when the NVQ came out. I took the 236 parts 1 and 2, the C cert and the AM1 and AM2 initially, it was 10 years after being qualified as a spark I heard about the NVQ 3, this was in the early 90s, I sent my certs off and they came back with a NVQ 3 certificate with them, at that time the grades I had were sufficient to gain that qualification. Regarding it's merit today, I don't think many guys have any respect for it, the JIB card always was the bench mark.

Yeah, compared to that C cert what's an NVQ worth. This wozz fella keeps going on about the value of it but, with previous quals and keeping up with 17th and Test and Insp, what is it worth....sfa.

 

[telectrix]

i've got a b&q trade card.

 

[ipf]

i've got a b&q trade card.

Snap!!! Get the cards out.

 

[wozz]

Yeah, compared to that C cert what's an NVQ worth. This wozz fella keeps going on about the value of it but, with previous quals and keeping up with 17th and Test and Insp, what is it worth....sfa.

The C course doesnt exist, and there is no replacement for it. times have changed for the worse in that respect.

So you are promoting academic only qualifications with no real life experience? is that how you want to trade progress? You want no new electricians to have something to separate them from Electrical Trainee? if so the colleges may as well shut and leave it to the training providers?