Whole Kitchen wiring diagram advice (excluding lights)

[James]

there are 2 things playing on my mind here.

1. as a contractor, I am happy when i have a clear design brief.
this should include the rating of any fixed appliance's and in the case of a kitchen, any other high power device's that are likely to have a permanent home. (microwave, kettle, toaster, washing machine, dishwasher etc.)

I would generally not expect a customer to be particularly interested in the precise layout of the circuits, however i would lay it out on the quote, how many circuits and there rating and use.
i.e.
1 Induction Hob supply 32A
2 cooker and microwave supply 32A
3 general sockets ring 32A
4 waste disposal and boiling water tap 20A

if the customer decided they wanted 2 rings of sockets or the microwave and cooker on different supplies, then i would re quote.
if they want every socket on its own 20A radial then its fine by me but the price is steadily climbing.

2.
if you are arguing about what is the right way to wire your kitchen with the electrician at the quotation stage, the customer/contractor relationship is already broken.

as a contractor we should be providing what the customer wants
however sometimes the customer wants something that is either not possible or cost effective and this needs to be pointed out early on.
i.e. yes of course i can put everything on a separate circuit but it will be £800 more, why not do it this way instead?

sometimes customers have too much time on there hands to read things on the internet about electrical installation that sounds great but is at best misinformed and at worst downright dangerous.

sometimes contractors are simply bad at there job and sometimes the good (technically) ones have a chip on their shoulder and cant deal with a customer wanting it done their way because that's not how they wanted to do it.

a realy good contractor should be able to deal with both the technicality's of providing a safe and good quality installation whilst also having the ability to deal with customers, even the difficult ones, in a professional way.

p.s. some customers can make the last comment impossible but i am not suggesting that you are one of them.

 

[benhurr]

You were still saying people were disagreeing with my opinion though.

You really need a proper sparky to design this rather than tinkering with stuff yourself. There's no shame in knowing your limitations.

yet you are not admitting you own)), first you should obey your own logic then you can preach

 

[Rockingit]

so the ring is being split in 2 and your still find it original? I can see, some suggest putting boiler on separate C, and frfreezer on separate C. This way I will run out of space in CU pretty soon.

As a rule we're pretty relaxed on here about DIY'ers because generally speaking they tend to be genuinely asking for advice, however all you seem to be wanting to do is find validation for your own [very limited and ill-advised] viewpoint??

I'm also very much inclined to think that you're about to do this work yourself and CLEARLY do not possess the understanding to do so safely. Had you have started this conversation by saying something like "I'm not sure my electrician is very experienced because they're suggesting....." then we could be better able to help you. However attempting to pit a set of armchair Screwfix opinions against a forum of extremely skilled and experienced electricians and electrical engineers isn't really going to get you very far.

 

[DPG]

yet you are not admitting you own)), first you should obey your own logic then you can preach

I don't understand what you mean, sorry.

Anyway, I've given my opinion. Hopefully you can move on with a suitable sparky who will design, install and test a suitable solution.

 

[benhurr]

there are 2 things playing on my mind here.

1. as a contractor, I am happy when i have a clear design brief.
this should include the rating of any fixed appliance's and in the case of a kitchen, any other high power device's that are likely to have a permanent home. (microwave, kettle, toaster, washing machine, dishwasher etc.)

I would generally not expect a customer to be particularly interested in the precise layout of the circuits, however i would lay it out on the quote, how many circuits and there rating and use.
i.e.
1 Induction Hob supply 32A
2 cooker and microwave supply 32A
3 general sockets ring 32A
4 waste disposal and boiling water tap 20A

if the customer decided they wanted 2 rings of sockets or the microwave and cooker on different supplies, then i would re quote.
if they want every socket on its own 20A radial then its fine by me but the price is steadily climbing.

2.
if you are arguing about what is the right way to wire your kitchen with the electrician at the quotation stage, the customer/contractor relationship is already broken.

as a contractor we should be providing what the customer wants
however sometimes the customer wants something that is either not possible or cost effective and this needs to be pointed out early on.
i.e. yes of course i can put everything on a separate circuit but it will be £800 more, why not do it this way instead?

sometimes customers have too much time on there hands to read things on the internet about electrical installation that sounds great but is at best misinformed and at worst downright dangerous.

sometimes contractors are simply bad at there job and sometimes the good (technically) ones have a chip on their shoulder and cant deal with a customer wanting it done their way because that's not how they wanted to do it.

a realy good contractor should be able to deal with both the technicality's of providing a safe and good quality installation whilst also having the ability to deal with customers, even the difficult ones, in a professional way.

p.s. some customers can make the last comment impossible but i am not suggesting that you are one of them.

Interesting idea regarding the split groups. I can see by the amount of opinions this is more like art than precise science. Thank you for your input. Regarding "2" I just need different opinions from professional as I have being let down by them occasionally

 

[benhurr]

I don't understand what you mean, sorry.

Anyway, I've given my opinion. Hopefully you can move on with a suitable sparky who will design, install and test a suitable solution.

Pardon me, This Was regarding your notes about "limit of knowledge", you admitted that you would do not want to change your opinion regardless if there will be conflicting information coming from more qualified electrician, so this mean you where ashamed to admit limit of your own knowledge (potentially) . And yet you are asking others to be shameless in this regard

 

[James]

Interesting idea regarding the split groups. I can see by the amount of opinions this is more like art than precise science. Thank you for your input. Regarding "2" I just need different opinions from professional as I have being let down by them occasionally

What I posted was NOT a recommendation as to how I would lay out your circuits, just an example of how I would deal with quoting for a kitchen fit out.

Take no notice of me, I am not even registered to provide part P certification so cant be bright enough to do domestic installations.

however I do know a bit about electrics and the ins and outs of customer/contractor relationships and that was where my post was aimed at.

 

[benhurr]

To be honest, that's a very poorly designed system both practically and technically.

thanks, would you care to specify main objections?

 

[DPG]

Pardon me, This Was regarding your notes about "limit of knowledge", you admitted that you would do not want to change your opinion regardless if there will be conflicting information coming from more qualified electrician, so this mean you where ashamed to admit limit of your own knowledge (potentially) . And yet you are asking others to be shameless in this regard

Look, your original idea was not good. I advised there were two many high power appliances on the one ring circuit, which I stand by. Others also agreed with this.

It's no good you just tinkering around with things when you aren't aware of the regulations or reasoning behind them.

If someone wants to disagree with me then I'm fine with that. As I said, I only one person.

Up to you. Feel free to 'design by screwfix forum' if you wish.

 

[benhurr]

Look, your original idea was not good. I advised there were two many high power appliances on the one ring circuit, which I stand by. Others also agreed with this.

It's no good you just tinkering around with things when you aren't aware of the regulations or reasoning behind them.

If someone wants to disagree with me then I'm fine with that. As I said, I only one person.

Up to you. Feel free to 'design by screwfix forum' if you wish.

it was not just Screwfix but local qualified certified electrician as well, the only change he made is splitting hob and oven. there is an updated version of diagram with 2 c rings and separate hob/oven. Yet you don't want to admit your own limitations. And should I state the obvious that anyone who is asking for advice here in diy section is admitting his limitation by definition. please

 

[mainline]

Hi everyone,
please advice and comment on the attached wiring diagram for a kitchen.
There are mixed opinions on the need for FSU-s and number of circuits required.
Distance to cu – 8m running under timber floor. kitchen size – 3.5M X 2.5M

Is this a !960s house ?

I agree with DPG about the single ring main.



Fridge /freezer
Hot tap
Boiler
Ideally, should be on their own circuits

If you're running out of Cu ways, you could always add a small kitchen Cu and have more radial circuits.

 

[mainline]

it was not just Screwfix but local qualified certified electrician as well, the only change he made is splitting hob and oven. there is an updated version of diagram with 2 c rings and separate hob/oven. Yet you don't want to admit your own limitations. And should I state the obvious that anyone who is asking for advice here in diy section is admitting his limitation by definition. please

Competent or qualified ? As there is a big difference.

 

[benhurr]

Competent or qualified ? As there is a big difference.

this is why I am here

 

[benhurr]

Is this a !960s house ?

I agree with DPG about the single ring main.



Fridge /freezer
Hot tap
Boiler
Ideally, should be on their own circuits

If you're running out of Cu ways, you could always add a small kitchen Cu and have more radial circuits.

ideally I would live on Tenerife what is Within regs is fine by me for now ( the house is 1890s))

 

[benhurr]

Is this a !960s house ?

I agree with DPG about the single ring main.



Fridge /freezer
Hot tap
Boiler
Ideally, should be on their own circuits

If you're running out of Cu ways, you could always add a small kitchen Cu and have more radial circuits.

thank you! is this any closer to ideal?: