Wiring a kitchen and where you put appliance sockets

[Steve93]

Currently On a new build and I wired the ring to a switch bank where I’m gonna have 4 switches switching those hood,fridge freezer,dishwasher and washing machine. From this I have ran a leg down to each socket behind the appliances. Now the kitchen fitter is kicking off that they shouldn’t be there because the appliance won’t go back fully? How does everyone else wire up kitchens in regards to appliances?

 

[123]

To add to the clouds in this thread,sockets are very often sited in adjacent cupboards
We can read the Iee Building regs guide and 5.2.2 of that guide specifically mentions not putting sockets in cupboards
They make the statement then use the word "should" be mounted on the fabric of the building and not in kitchen cupboards

If the intention is use only the fabric of the building why didn't they use the word "must"!

The Iee can sometimes speak with forked tongue

Trouble is the UK has 4 sets of building regs. And seem's like even the guides on them can't give a straight answer.

I have no issue with a socket mounting inside a unit regs/safety wise. I just think it looks terrible and like a botch job, and the kitchen carcass will have taken a bit of butchering works to have it done...especially if a hole is drilled for plug

 

[123]

Sausage fingers its late floating, ana raised no kick boards required and they look like rubbish.

I don't mind kickboard's, do like floating kitchens though, they seem to be becoming more the norm in the high end ones.

 

[Octopus]

A kick board is easily removed (unlike an integrated appliance). It can be removed in seconds. I'd call that very accessible.

Is fitting a click flow connector to a bit of floating T&E really acceptable (post #8). I wouldn't be too happy with it ... flex outlet plate a better job, but neither are MF rated. But what you have installed needs to be accessible as well anyway??

Bit of pot-kettle-black there.

In answer to the click flow, well my answer is that there isn't a fuse in it, a flex outlet plate - maybe but the depths of the units made it tight, plus the supplied leads were so short.

As for the MF - does a connection behind an appliance need to be MF? A plug and socket isn't MF, an outlet plate isn't MF. in fact, no connection that could be undone is really MF.

I had to dismantle part of a kitchen recently to replace a fuse in a plug for a cooker hood - the client wasn't very happy about the bill - but she wanted the hood working!

As for the regs about kitchen cupboards not being the fabric of the building - hum - so are they advoccating a large hole in the back of the cupboard for a plug to go into the wall?

 

[Midwest]

I have in the past, put a socket behind a built in appliance, with DP switch above (my own kitchen). I wouldn't do so now, simply because if the fuse in the plug top goes, there's a certain amount of dismantling of the kitchen unit & appliance to access said plug top. I know, because I've had to do so in my own kitchen .

I now install with DP above worktop & socket in adjacent cupboard, or as some customers prefer, just socket in adjacent cupboard.

As regards the advice from building regs, about not putting sockets on or in kitchen units, what advice do they give about under cupboard lighting, and Mrs Miggans and her socket for her mixer on her island unit

 

[Midwest]

I have no issue with a socket mounting inside a unit regs/safety wise. I just think it looks terrible and like a botch job, and the kitchen carcass will have taken a bit of butchering works to have it done...especially if a hole is drilled for plug

Can't criticise you, if you feel that sockets should be mounted behind appliance or behind kickboards, whatever is practicable for you & your customer(s).

As regards not cutting holes in units, can't see how you get away without doing so for water supplies to dishwashers, washing machine etc or waste's from dryers, so for plug top's, I don't see that as an issue IMO.

 

[Midwest]

Well, would you Adam & Eve it.

Went to do a quote this morning. Lady had had a kitchen installed by her builder in new extension. Apart from him ball'sing up the worktops etc, she had an integrated fridge freezer, plugged into a socket directly behind it, and free standing washing machine, built in, also with socket directly behind. Well one assumes so, 'cos you got to remove the appliances to check.

 

[DPG]

Another good reason for no sockets behind appliances - testing and fault finding.
Just realised that's two reasons.

Reminds me of a monty python sketch. Our two weapons are fear and surprise!

 

[Dave OCD]

I have in the past, put a socket behind a built in appliance, with DP switch above (my own kitchen). I wouldn't do so now, simply because if the fuse in the plug top goes, there's a certain amount of dismantling of the kitchen unit & appliance to access said plug top. I know, because I've had to do so in my own kitchen .

I now install with DP above worktop & socket in adjacent cupboard, or as some customers prefer, just socket in adjacent cupboard.

As regards the advice from building regs, about not putting sockets on or in kitchen units, what advice do they give about under cupboard lighting, and Mrs Miggans and her socket for her mixer on her island unit

Ah I'm glad to see Mrs Miggans is back, you haven't done a job for her for a while.

 

[Midwest]

Ah I'm glad to see Mrs Miggans is back, you haven't done a job for her for a while.

I flippin have, up in her itchy dusty loft space last week. Even one of the Seven Dwarfs would of found it a tight space

 

[andysparkfree]

am i right in thinking that cutting the moulded plugs off new appliances could void the warrantee (so could be bad on un used and new items)

 

[Des 56]

I suppose by not cutting it off,it saves all the potential pain of argument with the supplier or maintenance people when it goes pear shaped
In legal circles I would think the manufacturer would not have a leg to stand on if it was adapted by an electrician and the case went to court

 

[DPG]

am i right in thinking that cutting the moulded plugs off new appliances could void the warrantee (so could be bad on un used and new items)

Right, I'm going to get really angry now.

 

[andysparkfree]

go on DPG show me the errors

 

[DPG]

It don't invalidate the guarantee. One big urban myth.

 

[littlespark]

I worked in a kitchen refit with very few 'adjacent' units to put my sockets in. DP switches above, as always... but the unit under the sink had a socket for dishwasher, washing maching, stupid quooker water boiler, all the pipes and drains and the aforementioned quooker. All squashed into a 500mm wide base unit.

I don't cut plugs off appliances as sometimes I work in rented accommodation and the things need PAT tested on occasion.