Young boy killed in pub garden

[mattg4321]

Parents of electrocuted boy, 7, sob in court watching CCTV of his final moments

THE parents of a little boy killed by an electric shock as he played in a pub garden sobbed in court today as they watched CCTV of his final moments. Harvey Tyrrell, seven, suffered a massive shock…

www.thesun.co.uk

Not sure if this has been posted before but it just goes to show that eventually someone does get hurt. We’ve all seen loads of jobs where we wonder how it didn’t kill someone.

The terminology in the article is bad, but reading between the lines it sounds like no rcd protection and no cpc at class 1 outside lights. Probably poorly fitted too no doubt. By an ‘electrician’ with 50 years experience! He should really be facing jail time imo.

It doesn’t surprise me that it was a pub. Most of them are death traps from what I’ve seen.

 

[brianmoooore]

One of my daughters is the restaurant manager at a local rural pub.
About 3 years ago, at about 11am on a Sunday, she 'phoned me, requesting my immediate presence, as half the power to the pub had failed, and there were about 80 lunch bookings, starting in about 2 hours time.
Split phase supply, one RCD for each phase, and one tripping out. Quickly determined it was a lighting circuit causing the problem, and started testing with the other phase still switched on. Checking that the circuit I was going to test was dead revealed it wasn't! Never did get to the bottom of this one, since it wasn't what I was there for, and didn't want to be, but the voltage was the opposite phase of my circuit, and was coming via the emergency lights, some of which were on each phase. Must have been an open circuit shared neutral.
I found out that their usual 'electricians' (a large, well known local firm) had replaced two fluorescent lights in the kitchen on the relevant circuit about a month before, so that's where I started. Cover off, and the permanent lives straight through a choc. block and out the other side, and touching the cover.
Power back on, lunches saved, but in the short time I was there I saw half a dozen C2s at least, as well as the C1 for the emergency lights.
This place must have had regular EICRs from the local firm, but they obviously work and test to different standards than me.

 

[DPG]

From the MSN article with [my annotation] has:

Penny [prosecutor] said Bearman [pub owner] was once “blown across the cellar” after touching a fuse box in 2018, which left a large purple injury on his arm – though Naylor [so-called electrician] said he thought the injury was unrelated to the electricity supply.

So it seams the installation CPC has been live for some time?

It beggars belief that he has not caused more accidents in his time if that is his standard of understanding and attention to basic safety. Maybe none caused enough injury or death for HSE to bring him to trial

I'm intrigued to know what the electrician thought it was that caused the incident with the barman and the fusebox.

 

[littlespark]

Wasn't it a pub that famously put an interior socket for the beer garden inside a plastic butty box to make it 'waterproof'?

My local has a regular metal clad socket in the beer garden inside a metal biscuit tin screwed to the fence post.

 

[telectrix]

My local has a regular metal clad socket in the beer garden inside a metal biscuit tin screwed to the fence post.

as long as it's a hobnob tin, C3. anything else C2.

 

[GBDamo]

Having worked on a couple of pub installations this doesn't surprise me.

In this day and age we shouldn't be seeing incidents like this, typical money scrimping by a landlord has cost another life.

Yet people are still happy with their £60 EICRs...

as long as it's a hobnob tin, C3. anything else C2.

I cannot recall ever seeing hobnobs in tins so I calling bo*** ks on this early. Also, even if ever tinned( yeah, right) the variety is so low brow as to warrant only the flimsiest of tins, never suitable for exterior applications.

Now, Fox's Fabulously Chocolaty selection tin is on a whole new level. Both substantial and designed so as not to allow water to settle on horizontal surfaces.

The only tin capable of getting away with a C3, I think you'll all agree.

 

[telectrix]

I cannot recall ever seeing hobnobs in tins so I calling bo*** ks on this early. Also, even if ever tinned( yeah, right) the variety is so low brow as to warrant only the flimsiest of tins, never suitable for exterior applications.

Now, Fox's Fabulously Chocolaty selection tin is on a whole new level. Both substantial and designed so as not to allow water to settle on horizontal surfaces.

View attachment 63959

The only tin capable of getting away with a C3, I think you'll all agree.

only if the biscuits can withstand current rainfall without going soggy.

 

[UNG]

It is a real shame this pub did not have a diver-by EICR, as having one of those companies' directors in the dock on negligence charges might have shaken up the industry the way it needs.

I doubt it would only be a company director in the dock, the guy that produced the EICR would be there as well as the QS as they all have a duty of care

 

[Mike Johnson]

I do love it when you guys say "QS" to me that means Quantity Surveyor and they all ought to in the dock. ?

 

[UNG]

I do love it when you guys say "QS" to me that means Quantity Surveyor and they all ought to in the dock. ?

QS can have a lot of meanings given we are on an electrical forum I doubt it being Quantity Surveyor

 

[Mike Johnson]

I never though it was in this context, but as electricians are involved in construction the common meaning in the Building Trade for QS = Quantity Surveyor.

 

[loz2754]

Yes sometimes we need to careful when we use acronyms.
BBC for example. Can mean something else completely on some types of forums!

 

[telectrix]

definitely not use an abbreviation for Structure & Materials then?

 

[UNG]

A few years ago my s-i-l was helping her daughter do her homework on garden birds googling "blue ----" brought up something that she didn't expect

 

[Lucien Nunes]

There is often a catalogue of failings behind a fatal electrical incident. In this case the human angle on the case is thrown into stark relief as a young life was lost due to the errors knowingly committed by people with a duty of care. Without wishing in any way to diminish the importance of that, it's interesting to note how far we have come in managing the risks associated with technical hazards. Despite all the electrical equipment in use, millions of appliances, millions of circuits, live 24/7, when something goes wrong badly enough to kill, it can make national press.

I think it's important to use insights like this to home-in on the problem areas. The lad was not shocked by a circuit where the Zs was too high due to failure to compensate for the conductors being warmer during operation than testing. He was shocked because the whole premises' MET was floating free perhaps for a decade. The fine technical details are important, but equally or more important are the basic provisions for safety and doing business in such a way as to root out installations that do not meet them and get them sorted.

We sometimes hear about installations that seem likely to cause harm (e.g. with C1's or borderline C1's) and the only practical advice that can be given is to walk away. Those are the installations where one really needs to double down and find a solution for the customer to get the worst of the risks under control, even at the expense of not working to one's own normal standards of perfection. It's not easy.

 

[Electrics]

We sometimes hear about installations that seem likely to cause harm (e.g. with C1's or borderline C1's) and the only practical advice that can be given is to walk away. Those are the installations where one really needs to double down and find a solution for the customer to get the worst of the risks under control, even at the expense of not working to one's own normal standards of perfection. It's not easy.

I think the big difference with this installation however is that it is a public premises and therefore anybody knowing about its C1's are legally obliged to report it to the HSE if the owner refuses to have it rectified. Legally you're not allowed to just 'walk away'. It's a very important distinction.