Your going to laugh lads!!!!!!! NVQ3 - Domestic!!!!!

[Electricalserv]

I love this little statement from Napit and this is going to ruffle a few feathers.

For those choosing the qualification route, the Level 3 NVQ Certificate in Installing, Testing and Ensuring Compliance of Electrical Installation Work in Dwellings should be available from the 1st January 2012 as the minimum qualification level for Qualified Supervisors responsible for electrical work carried out in domestic properties which comes under Part P of the Building Regulations (for England and Wales).


My bold!!!!

NVQ3 - for domestic premises will be available from 2012.

Looks like the City & Guilds NVQ3 now has a little sister.

 

[Engineer54]

I can't believe this thread is still steaming along!!...lol!!

As far as i can see, the only person in favour here of segregating our industry is Electricalserv. we have a few sitting on the fence, and a few don't knows!! The vast majority here, can see that segregation is not going to do anyone any good, ...short or long term. Except of course the employers and and those with there greedy hand held out for your money!!!

Far from enhancing our industry or improving the status of qualified electricians it will do the exact opposite, you can bet your last pennies on that!!

Electricians should ALL be trained to a good standard minimum level, a level that will give him/her the qualifications to allow them to choose any field or category in our industry not just ''one''. If you think that the present level accepted by the scam providers etc, is not accptable then get the entry level changed, not by some buckshee new qualification, but by what's out there already.

Stop trying to make out that Domestic is something different or special, because it's NOT, ...and never has been!!! Only the scam providers are trying to make it so, for there own benifit not yours or the industries....

 

[Electricalserv]

Hows it segregating the industry? Its offering a qualification on par with the current NVQ3 for domestic only. Removing parts that are invalid fro Part P work!


Its an excellent idea. The pros's far outweigh the con's.


Pro's:

No more 5 Day Wonders.
Fully Qualified Domestic electricians only - Assessed and badged!
No more arguments about the industry letting computer technicians and policemen in.
More work for the real sparks - no competition from computer JIM!

Con's

Seperation from the Commercial & Industrial work - which is very, very different!


I think the problem here is that alot (not all) of the current NVQ3 sparks feel as though they are above the domestic market and don't see why an NVQ3 should be introduced to call a domestic electrician Approved!

I think from the older generation their argument is Where do we fit in? We are already time served, assessed and fully qualified and badged before this NVQ3 lark turned up. These guys I agree with. They should not have to sit any further qualification!

 

[Engineer54]

Well lads some sense at last. Just spoke to my scheme provider mainly NIC EIC. There take on all this is that things are far from being finalised.
They DO see where i am coming from and said even if i wasn't a QS I would have no problems in becoming one with my current qualifications, and time served experiance. The chap added (In fact it would be an insult to do otherwise) T
he powers to be are still talking over and drawing up plans regarding specifics on this. That does indeed include WHAT IS AN NVQ3 EQUIVELANT.
There aim is to STOP inexperianced and unqualified persons from becoming a QS, through some fast track network.
The concern is that our industry is becoming diluted, and the floodgates need to be closed. "SLAM".
I am glad I made the call, I will be glad to see the sense behind all this becoming clear, and I will be glad to see it implemented.
It's going to be good for the industry. Its OUR industry. Its an industry for ELECTRICIANS. So to the rest of em, earn it like we did, or KEEP OUT.

That's well Ripe, coming from the very same people that set those minimum qualifications levels for entry into their scam provider company.... So now there trying to slam the gate shut well after the horse has bolted, and i suppose that all those poorly qualified fast track sparks that are presently paying members, will be exempt from any new requirements. ....They are not after all going to see their income/profits fall thru the ceiling are they?? ...lol!!!

 

[Ponty Massive]

I've just read this thread from start to finish and can no longer make sense. The original arguement was providing a minimum qualification for domestic installers (I think??). IMO I think this is a step in the right direction.

However; unless the industry is going to advertise part P and prosecute people who are not registered, then it makes no difference to the cowboys anyway. More hoops to jump through, more expense and matey down the pub will do it cash in hand!!

I'm of the old school where an electrician did an apprenticeship, kept logbooks and was assessed on all aspects of the industy (dommestic, commercial and industrial). If I hadn't of been lucky enough to have had an appenticeship then maybe I would think differently. I would still not class someone who can only do domestic work as an electrician however, things have changed over the years and I understand we must move with the times.

Providing a higher standard for a DI (IMO) will be a good thing !!

 

[Engineer54]

Hows it segregating the industry? Its offering a qualification on par with the current NVQ3 for domestic only. Removing parts that are invalid fro Part P work!


Its an excellent idea. The pros's far outweigh the con's.


Pro's:

No more 5 Day Wonders.
Fully Qualified Domestic electricians only - Assessed and badged!
No more arguments about the industry letting computer technicians and policemen in.
More work for the real sparks - no competition from computer JIM!

Con's

Seperation from the Commercial & Industrial work - which is very, very different!


I think the problem here is that alot (not all) of the current NVQ3 sparks feel as though they are above the domestic market and don't see why an NVQ3 should be introduced to call a domestic electrician Approved!

I think from the older generation their argument is Where do we fit in? We are already time served, assessed and fully qualified and badged before this NVQ3 lark turned up. These guys I agree with. They should not have to sit any further qualification!

I don't think you can see what you are saying here, not in the bigger picture anyway. There is no need for any special qualification for domestic working absolutly NONE.

Alas, i don't think you've listened to anyone here, that have and has given very good reasons why there shouldn't be any special NVQ3 for domestic (or any other area). You have only listened to yourself, because it suits your aims. You can't see that there are qualifications out there now already, that would bring an end to the 5 day wonders as you put it. ...and that i feel is your main goal, ....That and getting an easier ''Approved'' status from the JIB!!!


This has got nothing to do with where the older Qualified sparks stand as far as QS status goes, this is all about your aims to segregate Domestic from the rest of the electrical industry, just a crazy idea all round!!!

 

[Electricalserv]

I don't think you can see what you are saying here, not in the bigger picture anyway. There is no need for any special qualification for domestic working absolutly NONE.

Alas, i don't think you've listened to anyone here, that have and has given very good reasons why there shouldn't be any special NVQ3 for domestic (or any other area). You have only listened to yourself, because it suits your aims. You can't see that there are qualifications out there now already, that would bring an end to the 5 day wonders as you put it. ...and that i feel is your main goal, ....That and getting an easier ''Approved'' status from the JIB!!!


This has got nothing to do with where the older Qualified sparks stand as far as QS status goes, this is all about your aims to segregate Domestic from the rest of the electrical industry, just a crazy idea all round!!!

Its not my idea, I don't make the rules and I haven't printed the articles. Its the industry. People at the top above you & me and its their decision!


It won't be an easier approved card it will be an approved card for a domestic electrician. Thats all I need.

 

[Electricalserv]

This has got nothing to do with where the older Qualified sparks stand as far as QS status goes, this is all about your aims to segregate Domestic from the rest of the electrical industry, just a crazy idea all round!!!

Everybody E54 thinks the whole press release was because of MY aims and somehow I have infiltrated the powers that be. Shocking!


Its bloody segregated as it is. Its called PART P no scheme or no Council you can't do work in dwellings.

This is tightening the quals to be allowed to do so!

 

[1shortcircuit]

Some people ought to utilise their time in a more productive manner, like going out and finding work or considering ways to further advance their business.

Also, could someone bring me up to date please? I was under the impression that these fast track Domestic Installers were referred to as 5 week wonders but it seems on reading some comments here that it's now a 5 day wonder?

Feel free to refer to me as a 5 minute wonder if you wish Hopefully it'll get some of you off. I on the other hand will continue to consider ways of progressing up the big long ladder whilst some of you moan and groan about the influx of competition.

15 pages and nearly 12 hours of blah blah blah lol I thought Electricians were bloody intelligent members of society... that was until I read a number of threads/posts on here.

I'm sure if some of the old skool sparks who are no longer with us today could see what this trade was coming to they would be turning in their grave!

 

[Baconhead]

This is it though E54. If you don't require Tray, Basket work etc etc. Why should you have to do a qualification that encorporates that to be a member of a PART P scheme? Part P is domestic only, therefore you should only be assessed on domestic work!

Every trained spark should beable to do Tray,Basket and Condiut work as they are part of the basics when learning.
And by just doing an NVQ or whatever they call them just for the domestic installer would stop anyonly domestic trained spark progressing on to the good stuff doing industrial and commercial work.

It's like saying D/I can't make off a large SWA cable because he's only trained upto say making 25mm off or he can't install a switch greater then 100amp because he's only trained to do upto 100amp not 250-300 plus switches.

 

[baldsparkies]

Well not quite at the turning in my grave stage yet BUT. If some bloke becomes a QS with a scheme provider after covering a 5 week 5 day or 5 minute course, then yes its enough for any fully trained up spark to turn in the proverbial. But then thats exactly what the scheme providers are trying to stamp out with this NVQ3 thing. Fair play for anyone proggressing up the big long ladder, and when you get there you deserve recognition.
In the meantime yours is making the tea, thats how I remember it when I was 5 months in, and rightly so cus with five months under my belt, I knew Jack Sh#t.
We all learn by our mistakes, maybe the powers to be are indeed back tracking because they have seen the error of there ways and are trying to do something about it. Good for them.

 

[Electricalserv]

Every trained spark should beable to do Tray,Basket and Condiut work as they are part of the basics when learning.
And by just doing an NVQ or whatever they call them just for the domestic installer would stop anyonly domestic trained spark progressing on to the good stuff doing industrial and commercial work.

It's like saying D/I can't make off a large SWA cable because he's only trained upto say making 25mm off or he can't install a switch greater then 100amp because he's only trained to do upto 100amp not 250-300 plus switches.

Your last comments are right. The new NVQ3 would limit the electricians qualification. They would not have a qualification you need to say you can do all of the above stuff. But as I've said again & again. Someone who chooses to do domestic work only only needs an NVQ3 in domestic work.


The option is still there to take the current NVQ3 which covers all scopes.Its still there

So where is everyones problem? This new qualification stops non-sparks from working on domestic premises at their own will. They can't become QS's and start up one man bands!


This is the reason why this qual has been introduced and the reason the commercial & industrial work has been taken away from it is because domestic electricians don't use most commercial and industrial methods!! Its just facts here!

 

[pennywise]

An NVQ in domestic only wouldn't stop the fast trackers, before you know it training companies will be springing up all over the place catering for this new course and condensing it down to a few weeks or months with all the portfolios being staged and made up and If they specify the person has to be employed in the industry to get on the NVQ, whats preventing someone setting up an "electrical company" that just so happens to have a massive turn over of apprentices who pay the company a small fortune to learn. I'm not saying it's a bad thing it's just from my experience the NVQ is a bit of a mickey mouse qual, the amount of guys that ask me for my portfolio to copy is unbelievable! and the assessors basically spoon feed people just to get them past so they get there grants. This is of course my own personal opinion

 

[Spudnik]

Fellas,

There hasnt even been a proper finalised statement yet, and so ALL of this is pure speculation.

As it has now reached 6 pages and there is no real evidence of what will be i am closing this for now.

Im sure, once an announcement has been made then there will be other threads or we can reopen this one.

I thank you.