Your going to laugh lads!!!!!!! NVQ3 - Domestic!!!!!

[Electricalserv]

I love this little statement from Napit and this is going to ruffle a few feathers.

For those choosing the qualification route, the Level 3 NVQ Certificate in Installing, Testing and Ensuring Compliance of Electrical Installation Work in Dwellings should be available from the 1st January 2012 as the minimum qualification level for Qualified Supervisors responsible for electrical work carried out in domestic properties which comes under Part P of the Building Regulations (for England and Wales).


My bold!!!!

NVQ3 - for domestic premises will be available from 2012.

Looks like the City & Guilds NVQ3 now has a little sister.

 

[Electricalserv]

Serv you have and never will hear me decry anyone doing domestic work, personally apart from core drilling it is my least favourite type of electrical work, I do not like it, the same that you do not like to do basket work, which again I don't like doing or tray work, which I don't mind.

If i had my way I would be building switch gear and panels doing all the wiring and connecting DB's as I enjoy that.

I think your missing my point, though I hate domestic work I can do it, though I hate tray I can do it, I love MICC work and can do it and I can do any type of containment work known to man, and some not known.

Why would you condone a practice that is not going to train a man to do as many differing types of work that the industry calls for. I can only surmise that your in favour of dumbing down the industry.

I am in favour of letting us Domestic time served lads who never sat the full apprentiship get on with our sector and no longer having to listen to JIB commercial & Industrial sparks moan about domestic electricians not being ''proper sparks''! Moaning about the industry failing us because of 5DW's.

It will all be a thing of the past.

Malcom you and others don't see that the times have changed different sectors do different kind of work so we don't need to be qualified in tray work etc etc. I'm sure if most of us domestic sparks could turn our hands to it aswell after a good go at it!

But if we don't do it we can't put it in our portfolio. So the right thing has happened the powers that be (who are in a better position than me and you to judge) have spoken & they've done a fantastic job for us domestic lads!

We are no going to be recognised as fully competent tradesman again. Whether other like it or not!

 

[malcolmsanford]

Your right son times have changed, but change is not necessary better.

Bat this about all day as you will I just know that IMO some in the industry have accepted the watering down of it. Not all of us old guys have a dinosaur approach to things, thinking that changes are bad, the same as the newer guys in the industry should not think that all the older practices are wrong.

It's your industry now son, and if your happy with the way it is going then I won't argue with that.

 

[sbrown2]

Its not the watering down its just the cycle of industrial life. One minute we want people to specialise and then when moneys tight we want them to be multiskilled. In my opinion the core subjects relating to the domestic and then commercial/industrial sectors will be similar. That is you must still have to have electrical theory at the centre for either NVQ. The implications of your actions if you do not conform to H&S legislation can potentially be as drastic in relation to life whether a domestic, commercial or industrial electrician.
I agree that its not that you won't be able to span other sectors its just you will have to pay the schemes to do this example

1) I pay the JIB so that I can work on commercial and industrial site,
2) In my day job they pay the IET for membership as it gives credence with some of our customers,
3) I'm just going through the application process with NAPIT for competent person schemes
4) I'm just going through MCS application with NAPIT

I reckon the cost has got to be near the £1500. My view is that with my initial quals and all of the experience I have ammassed I should not require all this accreditation to work but I am not prepared to work under the radar.

All the new quals will do is stop the five day wonders getting to QS so quickly.

 

[Des 56]

Whilst I'm not going to get embroiled in this debate,because it is for the younger ones to have to deal with
I notice that there are current rules/opinions that would need to be altered with the schemes for it to come about
Here is a Napit rule on gaining entry and qualifications


Under the electrical scheme do you have a Domestic Installers Scheme?

We do not have a Domestic Installers Scheme because there are far too may people doing short courses and calling themselves 'Domestic Electricians'. Due to the danger not only to the consumer but also from shock risk to the installer we have two scopes for Electrical one for Electricians and one for non electricians that carry out a small type of minor electrical work as part of their main trade. There are also a number of properties in the UK that have a 3 Phase supply and therefore it is hard to justify a Domestic Installer Scheme.



This is posted as just something for you to have a think about when agreeing with segregation of the sparks trade

Serve.you are a member of Napit I believe ?
How do you see that the status of the proposed Domestic electrician can be equated with the Napit requirements, if domestic work is segregated from other sectors

I know that in practice,they do register almost all who have the fee,but the organisation will have to back track on its long stated policy of not recognising the status on its own

As it stands,(at the least on paper anyway),Napit could not accept anyone with just domestic qualifications,

 

[baldsparkies]

I haven't read the entire thread but this press release from the NIC explains the why's & wherefors quite well I think.

Read it, but , once again it refers to NVQ3 or equivelant. Or equivelant ?? What does that mean ???
Is the 2360 part 2 equivelant to NVQ3 ? Is the leval 3 2391 equivelant to NVQ3 ? Is the leval 3 17th edition equivelant to NVQ3. Does a JIB gold card as Approved Electrician or an Electrical site managers card give you NVQ3 Status as an equivelant. Please just show me where they actually say what is to be deemed and accepted as an NVQ3 equivelant. Its not much to ask, and without it, a lot of qualified sparks are going to be left out in the cold. And right alongside the very people they are trying to close the door on, ie the non qualified persons. As said I'm already a Qualifying Supervisor but what if I wasn't ?? Please just point me to the info that clarifies what Ive just been talking about, cus I can't see it.

 

[kung]

Cant see it happening although it would be good ! take our NVQ 3 along to the LABC as proof of comp and they can scrap our need to be part of a scheme ! lol rotfl lmao an all that yer i cant see that happening either !

 

[Electricalserv]

Whilst I'm not going to get embroiled in this debate,because it is for the younger ones to have to deal with
I notice that there are current rules/opinions that would need to be altered with the schemes for it to come about
Here is a Napit rule on gaining entry and qualifications


Under the electrical scheme do you have a Domestic Installers Scheme?

We do not have a Domestic Installers Scheme because there are far too may people doing short courses and calling themselves 'Domestic Electricians'. Due to the danger not only to the consumer but also from shock risk to the installer we have two scopes for Electrical one for Electricians and one for non electricians that carry out a small type of minor electrical work as part of their main trade. There are also a number of properties in the UK that have a 3 Phase supply and therefore it is hard to justify a Domestic Installer Scheme.



This is posted as just something for you to have a think about when agreeing with segregation of the sparks trade

Serve.you are a member of Napit I believe ?
How do you see that the status of the proposed Domestic electrician can be equated with the Napit requirements, if domestic work is segregated from other sectors

I know that in practice,they do register almost all who have the fee,but the organisation will have to back track on its long stated policy of not recognising the status on its own

As it stands,(at the least on paper anyway),Napit could not accept anyone with just domestic qualifications,

Hi Des, it won't change anything. Napit will still not call their members domestic installers. They will still be Electricians, because the core qualifications they previously asked for....A tech cert level 3, 17th Edition & 2391 will still be a must for a QS.

Nothing will change except 5 day wonders won't be able to get in with out the domestic NVQ3 and a tech cert. They where allowed to use their 5 day course as an equivalent to the tech cert. Not anymore!

This benefits all who have done tech certs from level 2 right the way through to 2391 but never had a chance to do the NVQ3.

 

[Electricalserv]

Read it, but , once again it refers to NVQ3 or equivelant. Or equivelant ?? What does that mean ???
Is the 2360 part 2 equivelant to NVQ3 ? Is the leval 3 2391 equivelant to NVQ3 ? Is the leval 3 17th edition equivelant to NVQ3. Does a JIB gold card as Approved Electrician or an Electrical site managers card give you NVQ3 Status as an equivelant. Please just show me where they actually say what is to be deemed and accepted as an NVQ3 equivelant. Its not much to ask, and without it, a lot of qualified sparks are going to be left out in the cold. And right alongside the very people they are trying to close the door on, ie the non qualified persons. As said I'm already a Qualifying Supervisor but what if I wasn't ?? Please just point me to the info that clarifies what Ive just been talking about, cus I can't see it.

Nobody knows what the equivalent is mate. NOt even the schemes or JIB, they just beat around the bush!

 

[baldsparkies]

Nobody knows what the equivalent is mate. NOt even the schemes or JIB, they just beat around the bush!

If what you say is true serv, then they have failed us all. They simply haven't finished the job.
I agree with the NVQ3 (Or equivelant) being the way to go for a QS, I also think that a QS should hold the 2391 and 17th edition certs as well.
But as said, there are going to be a lot of qualified sparks left out in the cold unless the powers to be and scheme providers accept that NVQ3 equivelants need to be clarified and made plain to both sparks and the people administering any new criteria, BEFORE it comes into force. It was the part P money grabbers and the 5 day wonder courses that got us in this mess in the first place. Get something sorted YES. But for Petes sake SORT it before you put it into place. and that means before 2012.

Another point, I feel that once equivelant has been clarified, it shouldn't matter if your a QS now or not. What about the guys who are already QS's without having a qualified status. Every QS on there next assesment including existing should (Once the criteria is plain and truly sorted out) Have an NVQ3. OR an equivelant as per a recognised list. AND 2391 and 17th edition. If they don't have that on there next assesment, there out. Then you are truly getting rid of the non qualified. (But I had a big fat wedge in my wallet and paid my way in on a 5 dayer) TO BAD we have seen sense, you need a lot more than that to be a QS.

 

[Electricalserv]

The NVQ3 equivalent for me is anything before the NVQ3 was introduced.


I think that is the AM2 & 2360 PART 2 COMBINED!

 

[Electricalserv]

Why don't you older generation lads jump on the new NVQ3's next year. If your industrial take the diploma if your domestic take the new domestic.


I'll have to take it, but I'm bloody made up it won't involve any work that I don't do. No matter how much it costs its worth its weight in gold!

 

[malcolmsanford]

Serv I'm going to play the grumpy old git card, and if I wanted to register for Part P as a sole trader, which I still am by the way, so it won't affect me as such, but for the likes of Baldsparkie for example, that have done an apprenticeship, got the 236 part 1 & 2, a gold card approved electrician, a platinum managers cards, 2391. 2382, and 40 yrs in the industry, and was told that I had to do an NVQ3 and be assessed by some spotty faced yoik, I would not be impressed.

For guys like Baldsparkie and can't see that happening.

 

[Electricalserv]

Serv I'm going to play the grumpy old git card, and if I wanted to register for Part P as a sole trader, which I still am by the way, so it won't affect me as such, but for the likes of Baldsparkie for example, that have done an apprenticeship, got the 236 part 1 & 2, a gold card approved electrician, a platinum managers cards, 2391. 2382, and 40 yrs in the industry, and was told that I had to do an NVQ3 and be assessed by some spotty faced yoik, I would not be impressed.

For guys like Baldsparkie and can't see that happening.

And I completely understand that. Thats why the equivalent needs to be announced

 

[baldsparkies]

Well lads some sense at last. Just spoke to my scheme provider mainly NIC EIC. There take on all this is that things are far from being finalised.
They DO see where i am coming from and said even if i wasn't a QS I would have no problems in becoming one with my current qualifications, and time served experiance. The chap added (In fact it would be an insult to do otherwise) T
he powers to be are still talking over and drawing up plans regarding specifics on this. That does indeed include WHAT IS AN NVQ3 EQUIVELANT.
There aim is to STOP inexperianced and unqualified persons from becoming a QS, through some fast track network.
The concern is that our industry is becoming diluted, and the floodgates need to be closed. "SLAM".
I am glad I made the call, I will be glad to see the sense behind all this becoming clear, and I will be glad to see it implemented.
It's going to be good for the industry. Its OUR industry. Its an industry for ELECTRICIANS. So to the rest of em, earn it like we did, or KEEP OUT.

 

[malcolmsanford]

That draft you posted in post way back on post 30 odd did say on the bit about the criteria for Domestic Electrician that an Installation Electrician ( and they used bold font), could have the accreditation of Domestic electrician put on the card, so I assume that gold card JIB card holders will not need this NVQ, so that will be one.