Your going to laugh lads!!!!!!! NVQ3 - Domestic!!!!!

[Electricalserv]

I love this little statement from Napit and this is going to ruffle a few feathers.

For those choosing the qualification route, the Level 3 NVQ Certificate in Installing, Testing and Ensuring Compliance of Electrical Installation Work in Dwellings should be available from the 1st January 2012 as the minimum qualification level for Qualified Supervisors responsible for electrical work carried out in domestic properties which comes under Part P of the Building Regulations (for England and Wales).


My bold!!!!

NVQ3 - for domestic premises will be available from 2012.

Looks like the City & Guilds NVQ3 now has a little sister.

 

[Electricalserv]

I can't for my life believe the reaction to this fantastic idea to tighten our industry up.


For years the industry has bemoaned the domestic sector, the 5dw's and the easy route in. Now it looks like the industry has sat up and offered an NVQ3 in domestic installtion to ensure competencey in that sector of all QS's.


Why nobody can see that this was the only option for Part P work I don't know?

If I can explain.


The schemes are only here because of Part P. Part P is the domestic sector only. The industry wanted to tighten up as a whole, so needed to stop unqualified members of the public gaining short course quals and starting up shop as one man bands.

For the schemes to then come out and say the only way we can do this is if all electricians sit the current city & guilds NVQ3 they would have not leg to stand on because the NVQ3 covers a range of activities that goes far beyond the scope that they cover. We have to remember they cover domestic only. No tray, no basket, no steel trunking!


So as an industry and as schemes they had to look at a qualification that covers PART P and that answer is an NVQ3 that covers domestic scope. A qualification that can say....I've been assessed on my practical work and I'm a competent electrician who works in dwellings.


All this bravado about driving rates down is absolute tosh!!! It will drive them up!!! At this very moment we have 5DW's in the domestic sector and thats what drived rates down. Unskilled men working in the sector for £80 a day.


This NVQ3 will qualifiy you as an electrician in domestic premises and it will be the same rate an any electrician in any sector from the JIB!


If the JIB decide to give the Domestic Electrician a lesser rate, it is they who are seperating the industry and they who are driving rates down and anyone who feels disgrunted about it needs to wake up. There is a wide variety of electricians now and we are all skilled in our own sectors and thats that!

 

[AP Electrical]

"This NVQ3 will qualifiy you as an electrician in domestic premises and it will be the same rate an any electrician in any sector from the JIB!"

I can see your chain of thought, but to become a 'domestic electrician' would be diff than a commercial electrician a lot of the tech knowledge wouldnt be needed thus speeding up the process for qualification as a domestic spark and there's no way the pay would be comparible as theres diff skill sets involved imo.

"If the JIB decide to give the Domestic Electrician a lesser rate, it is they who are seperating the industry and they who are driving rates down and anyone who feels disgrunted about it needs to wake up. There is a wide variety of electricians now and we are all skilled in our own sectors and thats that! "

JIB will do as they please no doubt, honestly cant see it changing a thing it's a smokescreen to keep the part p machine rolling.

 

[Guest123]

I haven't read the entire thread but this press release from the NIC explains the why's & wherefors quite well I think.

 

[AP Electrical]

I haven't read the entire thread but this press release from the NIC explains the why's & wherefors quite well I think.

Cant see could you repost pls.
ta

 

[IQ Electrical]

NICEIC | About Us | Press Releases

 

[Guest123]

NICEIC | About Us | Press Releases

 

[Electricalserv]

For work in the Commercial or Industrial Sectors, the minimum qualification requirement for Qualified Supervisors will be the new Level 3 NVQ Diploma in Installing Electrotechnical Systems and Equipment (Building and Structures).


Ahh so at last they are governing the commercial & industrial sectors aswell.


Best thing I've read from these schemes!!!

 

[Electricalserv]

The way i look at it is this: As it stands now all somebody has to do is sit the 17th (60 questions....open book....on line guess) and show he/she can perform safe isolation and prove this has been achieved, Then do an install for family/friend (buildings control) and then pay a fee to part p and there in the club.......totaly unacceptable. A minimum requirement should be the latest regs (2382), a MINIMUM 2392 ins and test and a good report from a previous employer that will show you are COMPETENT in the industry.

But the new way in will totaly exceed that.

This is how I look at it.

2382
2391
2330/2360 Level 3 tech cert
NVQ3 - Domestic
ECS H&S

or you're not in the club end of story. The tech cert takes a year the same as the NVQ3. 17th & 2391 are added extras. Which in my opinion should continue to be a must!

 

[malcolmsanford]

I'm on the fence to a degree here and agree with the Serv that the current levels of competence was not working, whether it was a 5 day course or whatever, and something had to be done, and the answer, or not as the case maybe is this new NVQ.

What galls me is, and always will be is 1 the dumbing down of the industry, 2 the governments/associations attempt to try and segregate our trade, in the exact same way they have done for the plumbing/gas industry. A Gas safe plumber now needs several costly certificates to work on domestic, domestic boilers, domestic appliances and then commercial, all these are different levels of competence according to their industry, all needing different certificates in order for work to be done on them, and it seems that we are going the same way.

The bottom line for me is train someone to be an Electrician first, and he will decide then if they wants to become commercial, industrial or domestic, or all 3. We would be up in arms if a doctor was just trained on heart surgery or oncology, without going through GENERAL TRAINING, the same with lawyers and nurses, but for us it is different, our betters or not, depending on your view, that includes the JIB, the NICEIC, ECA and Unions have allowed our skills to be devalued so much that most people think now they can leave being a baker for 30 years and in 5 weeks be a Domestic Installer/Electrician.

Is it ever going to now revert back to anything sensible, I doubt it, in all honesty this started 30 odd years ago with the diluted 2 yr course, and within my life time we will be a totally segregated trade, it is so sad to see, what was once a wonderful career is now aligned to being a plumber.

 

[Knobhead]

**Cancelled**

 

[Electricalserv]

The bottom line for me is train someone to be an Electrician first, and he will decide then if they wants to become commercial, industrial or domestic, or all 3. We would be up in arms if a doctor was just trained on heart surgery or oncology, without going through GENERAL TRAINING, the same with lawyers and nurses, but for us it is different, our betters or not, depending on your view, that includes the JIB, the NICEIC, ECA and Unions have allowed our skills to be devalued so much that most people think now they can leave being a baker for 30 years and in 5 weeks be a Domestic Installer/Electrician.

This is where I think think the industry has excelled. Instead of training people across the board in all sectors. You now focus on the sector you want and become a proffessional in. Whether its domestic, commercial or industrial.

When doctors finish their basic training they pick one area to specialise in. Yes they are trained in other aspects but they go for one and usually stick at it. Its the same princible here. If you want to be a domestic electrician stick to domestic qualifications. Learn domestic work. if you want to be a diverse electrician across the board take the divers qualification.

UI think this is a great move by the schemes and the JIB. Especially now that the JIB are on board and there will be a minimum wage domestic sparks can earn!

 

[Electricalserv]

I have my 2391 but do you think its neccesary for domestics? I know part p providers will let you do periodics with the 2392 as long as you SIT the 2391 within a year....no one said anything about actually passing it.
I think that the level 3 cert will definately prove competence but in this day and age how many will/can pay upwards of £1000 for it?

Well you can say how many can pay the £800 upwards for the current NVQ3.

The 2391-10 is a must mate. Competence in Inspection & Testing covers your back in the event of something going wrong. No other watered down Inspecting & Testing qual can do so!

 

[malcolmsanford]

This is where I think think the industry has excelled. Instead of training people across the board in all sectors. You now focus on the sector you want and become a proffessional in. Whether its domestic, commercial or industrial.

When doctors finish their basic training they pick one area to specialise in. Yes they are trained in other aspects but they go for one and usually stick at it. Its the same princible here. If you want to be a domestic electrician stick to domestic qualifications. Learn domestic work. if you want to be a diverse electrician across the board take the divers qualification.

UI think this is a great move by the schemes and the JIB. Especially now that the JIB are on board and there will be a minimum wage domestic sparks can earn!

sorry Serv you say it is good that general training for electricians is now no longer needed, that all you need to do is train for domestic, or PV, or Industrial, or Fire alarms only, that general training is no longer needed??

So we should not be trained generally and then decide to work in what we prefer??

 

[Electricalserv]

sorry Serv you say it is good that general training for electricians is now no longer needed, that all you need to do is train for domestic, or PV, or Industrial, or Fire alarms only, that general training is no longer needed??

So we should not be trained generally and then decide to work in what we prefer??

Malcom the general training is no longer required for some electricians. The industry has been split domestic/light commercial electricians and Heavy commercial/industrial.

I have no doubt the new NVQ3 - Domestic, will have steel conduit involved but won't have your baskets, trays, steel trunking & lots of unessessary areas that us domestic lads don't need in our locker.

This qualification will now give Domestic electricians an ability to stand tall and say we're Electricians too. We've been assessed and we're competent people. Not 5 day wonders and they will be a thing of the past.

If that means seperating from commercial and industrial sparks so be it. Its those who are the ones calling domestic electricians diet sparks. So I say good riddance!

 

[malcolmsanford]

Serv you have and never will hear me decry anyone doing domestic work, personally apart from core drilling it is my least favourite type of electrical work, I do not like it, the same that you do not like to do basket work, which again I don't like doing or tray work, which I don't mind.

If i had my way I would be building switch gear and panels doing all the wiring and connecting DB's as I enjoy that.

I think your missing my point, though I hate domestic work I can do it, though I hate tray I can do it, I love MICC work and can do it and I can do any type of containment work known to man, and some not known.

Why would you condone a practice that is not going to train a man to do as many differing types of work that the industry calls for. I can only surmise that your in favour of dumbing down the industry.