Discuss EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news" in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectriciansForums.net
I doubt the poll is anything close to accurate across the whole UK population, the forum members are predominantly from the working/middle class. From what I've seen most of the polls are pretty close to a 50/50 split. https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/
I did a bit of scratching around to see the arguments for staying in a for exiting. I haven't lived in the UK since half way through the Thatcher years so much of the finer points of the arguments on both sides were lost on me but the one thing I did notice is how differently the two campaigns are structured.
You've got the exit side pointing to many of the UK's current woes and saying how these would improve if you were out of the EU.
Then you've got the stay side who don't seem to be pointing to much apart from fear mongering about numerous years of reduced trade and possible recession. The biggest worry for me is that most of the noise about how UK should stay in the EU is coming from other countries. Everyone from France to the US to the G7 leaders seem to want the UK to stay. Obviously none of the above are looking out for anyone other than themselves so to me it looks like remaining is definately doing everyone else a big favour but I'm not seeing any evidence it would actually be good for the UK.
A couple of reports out last week stated Germany would suffer badly from Brexit, one from a German bank has predicted Britain leaving the EU will cost the German economy almost £35 billion plunging the country into financial disrepair, the other from a leading credit insurer Euler Hermes who are based in Paris, according to Euler Hermes the German car industry would suffer a £1.5billion (€2bn) blow and the country's mechanical engineers and chemical industry would lose out on almost £1bn each, with this much at stake why did Dave achieve so little while renegotiating Britains position in the EU.
The infamous dumbest pirrock stumped the in campaign lol .... you can't really get worse than that :shocked3:
A report also out last week by Lawyers for Britain written by some of the most eminent legal experts in the field said BRITAIN would be legally entitled to use existing trade deals worth billions of pounds even if the country voted to leave the European Union in June and discredits claims by Chancellor George Osborne that the UK would find it “very difficult” to renegotiate trade deals with 27 EU members and 50 global trading partners. The report was hailed as a game changer by the independent Institute of Economic Affairs think tank. It’s out for me.
Why am I not surprised? lol DW got it right, guys a pirrock.I quite like him.
Because he didn't try very hard. This is a very good point, it would cause turmoil in the rest of the EU if we leave, and yet they seemed to treat "Dave" with a certain amount of casual disregard. It was a golden opportunity to get some REAL concessions and he's fluffed it. You could argue, however, that he is in a very difficult position. If they DID give us some proper concessions then maybe they would expect us to join the ERM and to be a part of the Shengan agreement, both of which would obviously be a disaster. The truth is that we have never really been committed to the EU, we need to either leave, or, in the unfortunate but probable likely-hood that we remain, we need to become properly involved and start to try and sort it out rather than leaving it to a bunch of unelected half wits.A couple of reports out last week stated Germany would suffer badly from Brexit, one from a German bank has predicted Britain leaving the EU will cost the German economy almost £35 billion plunging the country into financial disrepair, the other from a leading credit insurer Euler Hermes who are based in Paris, according to Euler Hermes the German car industry would suffer a £1.5billion (€2bn) blow and the country's mechanical engineers and chemical industry would lose out on almost £1bn each, with this much at stake why did Dave achieve so little while renegotiating Britains position in the EU.
When we are at such a massive crossroads for the country where it can be argued that neither the IN or OUT campign can predict what will happen then to get a better understanding as to the advice been dished out then what we can do is look at history itself, in fact the recent history of deciding not to join the Euro is ideal to find what we were told and by who and what the outcome actually was, here's a very interesting report if you can take time to read it, the scary thing here is its almost like De Je' Vue with the IN campaigns scare tactics with the same people giving the same doomsday stories and the BBC having a biased lean towards the IN in the way it reports and discusses the EU.
The great euro swindle | The Spectator
When we are at such a massive crossroads for the country where it can be argued that neither the IN or OUT campign can predict what will happen then to get a better understanding as to the advice been dished out then what we can do is look at history itself, in fact the recent history of deciding not to join the Euro is ideal to find what we were told and by who and what the outcome actually was, here's a very interesting report if you can take time to read it, the scary thing here is its almost like De Je' Vue with the IN campaigns scare tactics with the same people giving the same doomsday stories and the BBC having a biased lean towards the IN in the way it reports and discusses the EU.
The great euro swindle | The Spectator
That's exactly right Murdoch. They always seem to pick people who look like they have just come off an EDL march to represent the outs. I thought it was just me but obviously others have noticed, might as well call them the Biased Broadcasting Company.Hit, nail and head spring to mind.
The BBC can't trusted on much these days when it reports the news and as for the "balanced" audiences for programs like Question Time and the shameful "debate" on the EU the other night - the "in's were very "ethnic" and the "outs" were very white.
Shame really as they used to be trusted by nearly all of us.
That's exactly right Murdoch. They always seem to pick people who look like they have just come off an EDL march to represent the outs. I thought it was just me but obviously others have noticed, might as well call them the Biased Broadcasting Company.
Hit, nail and head spring to mind.
The BBC can't trusted on much these days when it reports the news and as for the "balanced" audiences for programs like Question Time and the shameful "debate" on the EU the other night - the "in's were very "ethnic" and the "outs" were very white.
Shame really as they used to be trusted by nearly all of us.
Are you talking about the debate at Chatham House Murdoch?
That Viccy Derbyshire debate was a joke. I like VD but I have to say the choice of audience was a joke, including the "we have built this country" comment from some suitably chosen 1st generation immigrant. What a load of rubbish.
No the Victoria Derbyshire one last week.
This isn't anything new for the BBC. Back in 1997 I was in the audience for Question Time - the production staff made sure that all the white people were around the edges and centre of the audience was very ethnic mixed except white!
You're right Murdoch, he is lying.
I watched almost all of that Q&A, and IMO he convinced me. Gonna watch the Gove one tonight, to see if he can convince me otherwise.
You're right Murdoch, he is lying.
He can no more control imigration in the EU than he could if we were out.
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I'm not a political animal like some. In my opinion I thought he gave some good replies, he was asked a lot of different questions, and I don't know the format of the Q&A, but he gave answers to all questions and seem to have a knowledge of each subject.How did he convince you?.. From what I saw he spent the majority of the time deflecting questions, avoiding answers and when he finally did answer on how do we control immigration he suggested a flawed system that has been failing for the last several years because it doesn't work - how do you expect to deport anyone if they cannot find a job in 6months when we still have a backlog of criminals in the system, enough to fill a small town that we cannot even deport due to EU hoops and red tape thats needed to just deport 1 person... the other week the EU overuled the UK and let a known rapist back into the UK because they didn't deem his history was cause to return him back to his country so it looks like we cannot even send a rapist home now!
Well the facts do not bear that out Murdoch.It would be easy to control if we were out. The decisions would be ours to make and take.
Cameron will be history after the 24th June - any credibility he had is evaporating fast now
I'm not a political animal like some. In my opinion I thought he gave some good replies, he was asked a lot of different questions, and I don't know the format of the Q&A, but he gave answers to all questions and seem to have a knowledge of each subject.
Whilst immigration is an emotive subject at the moment, I don't thing ones whole decision should be based just on that. As someone said this week, if we leave, our borders will move from el Calais to Dover.
Another thing concerns me, is the amount of corporate organisations stating they will relocate if we leave. In my opinion, jobs and economics are one of the key concerns over whether to leave or stay.
I'll watch the flip side, tonight I think it is, and see what Grove has to say.
Well the facts do not bear that out Murdoch.
Cameron got in on a promise to get immigration down to the tens of thousands. We have total control over non EU immigration and that is nowhere near that figure. In theory we could stop non EU immigration over night but the reality is different.
Outside the EU will be the same. We will still not be able to control immigration.
However I still think you will get your way. The economy will be so trashed that no one will want to come here and there will be no jobs for them even if they did.
I hope you're right. But not with Johnson or Osborne taking over.
Don't know why that block gets some much good press, he's more 'Chipping Norton' than Cameron.well, jeremy clarkson is currently "unbusy". he's the better option of a JC to lead the UK.
You can tell when he is lying, his lips move.
Good shout. To help me making my decision, can you identify me the politician, who's not economical with the truth on this subject?You can tell when he is lying, his lips move.
Good shout. To help me making my decision, can you identify me the politician, who's not economical with the truth on ANY subject?
So I'm stuffed then, can't trust any of them (Leave or Remain). Gonna have to make the decision for myself? Any ideas where I can get some impartial advice? :confused5:Corrected that for you!
So I'm stuffed then, can't trust any of them (Leave or Remain). Gonna have to make the decision for myself? Any ideas where I can get some impartial advice? :confused5:
I don't think ANYONE is telling us the truth now.
Gonna have to make the decision for myself? Any ideas where I can get some impartial advice? :confused5:
Reply to EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news" in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectriciansForums.net
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