EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I'm not convinced about the PM bit but I am totally convinced we should get out of the EU. I am fed up of people doing the UK down and making comments that we wouldn't be able to succeed on our own and wouldn't be able to enjoy some of the benefits. How do they imagine we got on before we got involved in all this EU crap?? We didn't become the greatest country on the planet with the help of the EU did we?? And before some smart-arse says we are not, why does everyone want to come here?? And another thing, if you want to know what Europe really thinks of us, just look at the voting for the next Euro-vision song contest, or more like, the Euro lets not give the UK any votes even if they do and always have had the best musicians in the world.

I'm for staying in but your post is interesting. Who's putting the UK down? I'm certainly not and I've not heard it in any of the remain arguments, and of course we would be able to succeed outside. That's not the point, the argument is whether we're better off in or out. You should argue your point around that and not put words in your opponents mouths.
Unless of course your'e a politician.

 

[Spoon]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I'm for staying in .

I'm not sure myself what is best. I'm more inclined to go for the Out option.
From your point of view Andy, what to we lose from leaving?

 

[telectrix]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

agree with a ll the first bit of your post. we should vote "OUT". as for the eurovision, i'll vote for rammstein if the germans vote for black sabbath. now that would be a proper eurovision contest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lVdMbUx1_k

 

[UNG]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Why is it the outcome of Cameron's negotiations have not been more widely publicised in detail or it is it that nothing is set in stone and an in vote will just resume the current status quo with no change

EU reform is a term being used a lot in the last few days but whats on offer isn't reform it is minor meddling to fudge the real facts IMO.

I think both sides need to provide reasoned facts as to in or out and get away from fear factor sound bites yes it is difficult to know or predict what will happen with an out vote

Given the current financing of the EU should the UK leave how does the EU plug the hole in their accounts and survive, it seems to be an all or nothing situation across the channel what are the other EU states thinking as they don't appear to have any plan should the UK vote no will there be an EU to be on the outside of

There is a lot of mileage left in the stay or leave debate and during the next few months the case has to be made on facts and not fear as to whether we stay or leave for me any reform of the EU had to be a lot deeper than what has been negotiated as the EU megalomaniac juggernaut is out of control with little accountability for it's actions

 

[Spoon]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

There is a lot of mileage left in the stay or leave debate and during the next few months the case has to be made on facts

The problem is, where do we get these 'facts' from? Can't believe the BBC news, or the newspapers. We will just be fed that the media want us to think...

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I'm not convinced about the PM bit but I am totally convinced we should get out of the EU. I am fed up of people doing the UK down and making comments that we wouldn't be able to succeed on our own and wouldn't be able to enjoy some of the benefits. How do they imagine we got on before we got involved in all this EU crap?? We didn't become the greatest country on the planet with the help of the EU did we?? And before some smart-arse says we are not, why does everyone want to come here?? And another thing, if you want to know what Europe really thinks of us, just look at the voting for the next Euro-vision song contest, or more like, the Euro lets not give the UK any votes even if they do and always have had the best musicians in the world" contest.

Jeez, I'm glad we're not arrogant nor nuffin'.

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Here's my contribution;

If we leave, we can send the immigrants back - Turks make good kebabs though. We can have shillings & half crowns, feet & inches, and buy a Melton Mowbray pork pie made in scotland (be more expensive thou, cos the scots have gone independent).

If we stay, we won't need a passport for the booze cruise to Calais. The french will still have to speak english. And we keep a cap on low mobile roaming charges - not that I travel a lot to Europe - except Calais.

Anyone seen Boris's Dad? Looks a cross between Donald Trump and Paddy Ashdown.

Go on my son!

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Boris like to portray himself as a "tim nice but dim". don't be fooled. he's no fool.

Yeah look how he ran 'Have I got news for you', better than that Clarkson bloke.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Here's my contribution;

If we leave, we can send the immigrants back - Turks make good kebabs though. We can have shillings & half crowns, feet & inches, and buy a Melton Mowbray pork pie made in scotland (be more expensive thou, cos the scots have gone independent).

If we stay, we won't need a passport for the booze cruise to Calais. The french will still have to speak english. And we keep a cap on low mobile roaming charges - not that I travel a lot to Europe - except Calais.

Anyone seen Boris's Dad? Looks a cross between Donald Trump and Paddy Ashdown.

Go on my son!

Sounds great to me.....

 

[telectrix]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

and,, as for that angela meerkat woman... we stopped her lot from turning europe into a 1 party state in 1945. now it's coming in the back door, time to let the dogs out.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Jeez, I'm glad we're not arrogant nor nuffin'.

Where's your national pride boy?

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I'm for staying in but your post is interesting. Who's putting the UK down? I'm certainly not and I've not heard it in any of the remain arguments, and of course we would be able to succeed outside. That's not the point, the argument is whether we're better off in or out. You should argue your point around that and not put words in your opponents mouths.
Unless of course your'e a politician.

I didn't exactly mean that people are putting the UK down, but there seems to be a theme amongst the "stay in" mob that we would struggle without Europe and would not be able to either compete or run our country properly or competitively. The point I was making was how do these people imagine we did it before we joined??

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

and,, as for that angela meerkat woman... we stopped her lot from turning europe into a 1 party state in 1945. now it's coming in the back door, time to let the dogs out.

Shut up.

This is supposed to be a serious political discussion about whether to leave the EU or not.
Your sarcasm is lowering the tone.

Anybody would think, us plebs don't have a donkeys ideas. Now where's me lucky flipping half crown.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Shut up.

This is supposed to be a serious political discussion about whether to leave the EU or not.
Your sarcasm is lowering the tone.

Anybody would think, us plebs don't have a donkeys ideas. Now where's me lucky flipping half crown.

So do you not think that Angela Meerkat doesn't want to be the next leader of a federal Europe? It's obviously in their genes. Mind you cheeky cow was tucking into chips the other day.

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Where's your national pride boy?

North of the border

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I didn't exactly mean that people are putting the UK down, but there seems to be a theme amongst the "stay in" mob that we would struggle without Europe and would not be able to either compete or run our country properly or competitively. The point I was making was how do these people imagine we did it before we joined??

Now, where have I heard that before? Oh yes, on the run up to September 18th 2014.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Now, where have I heard that before? Oh yes, on the run up to September 18th 2014.

What has Scotland's voting to remain part of the UK got to do with the UK voting to remain part of Europe, exactly??

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

What has Scotland's voting to remain part of the UK got to do with the UK voting to remain part of Europe, exactly??

You're accusing the stay voters of using the very tactics which were widely used by Bitter Together (or Project Fear,as they themselves named it) to persuade people to stay, when I can't find one example in this forum of anyone doing so.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

You're accusing the stay voters of using the very tactics which were widely used by Bitter Together (or Project Fear,as they themselves named it) to persuade people to stay, when I can't find one example in this forum of anyone doing so.

I wasn't commenting specifically on Forum voters, but there is a theme common to "stay in" campaigners generally, to try and play on some kind of fear factor, should we leave. This in my opinion, is totally without grounds and not supported by our standing in the world prior to joining. "we", do not need the EU, in order to flourish, quite the opposite, IMO.

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I wasn't commenting specifically on Forum voters, but there is a theme common to "stay in" campaigners generally, to try and play on some kind of fear factor, should we leave. This in my opinion, is totally without grounds and not supported by our standing in the world prior to joining. "we", do not need the EU, in order to flourish, quite the opposite, IMO.

And I think that once more you're making a statement without any real basis in fact. You've switched now, presumably you can't find any evidence here, to throwing it out as a wider accusation. It won't wash. Prior to joining the EU, our standing was waning, Empire was dead on its feet and manufacturing industries were disappearing rapidly. We were desparate to get in on what was shaping up to be a pretty decent market for us, and that's only improved. You need to base your argument on solid eveidence and define it by your views, not the antipathy of those you disagree with.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

And I think that once more you're making a statement without any real basis in fact. You've switched now, presumably you can't find any evidence here, to throwing it out as a wider accusation. It won't wash. Prior to joining the EU, our standing was waning, Empire was dead on its feet and manufacturing industries were disappearing rapidly. We were desparate to get in on what was shaping up to be a pretty decent market for us, and that's only improved. You need to base your argument on solid eveidence and define it by your views, not the antipathy of those you disagree with.

This pretty decent market, as you put it, is dead on its Arse. We have an opportunity to trade directly with the rest of the world, principally the emerging nations. The point I made regarding the fear factor is real, never does a day go by when there is not a news item on any media where some europhile is warning of the so called dangers of being "left out in the cold", well that won't wash, either. If you want to look at industries, how about the fishing one? If we stay in that will be the next to go. We never joined to have our laws made in Brussels are to be virtually ruled by them either.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

If you want to look at industries, how about the fishing one? If we stay in that will be the next to go ......

You'll have to find a better example than that ......


Pre EU "our" waters were massively over fished, there was massive over capacity, it was a complete free for all - every man and his dog could drag as much fish as it wanted out of the sea - the signs of stock depletion were clear for all to see..


Thanks to the EU there's now a very sensible quota policy, which allows for both managed production and stock protection - without that your chippy tea would be extinct.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

This pretty decent market, as you put it, is dead on its Arse. We have an opportunity to trade directly with the rest of the world, principally the emerging nations.

We already can, we already do .... why would leaving the EU make that any easier ?

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

You'll have to find a better example than that ......


Pre EU "our" waters were massively over fished, there was massive over capacity, it was a complete free for all - every man and his dog could drag as much fish as it wanted out of the sea - the signs of stock deletion were clear for all to see..


Thanks to the EU there's now a very sensible quota policy, which allows for both managed production and stock protection - without that your chippy tea would be extinct.

Yup - but in those days they were "our waters" and yes WE over fished them. Along comes the EU - we give up massive fishing areas AND the number of boats are reduced.

So get our waters back, kick out the foreigners, then replace them with "our" boats - to maintain the fishing levels to sensible ones then hey presto - loads of employment for had pressed coastal towns and villages around the UK

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

You'll have to find a better example than that ......


Pre EU "our" waters were massively over fished, there was massive over capacity, it was a complete free for all - every man and his dog could drag as much fish as it wanted out of the sea - the signs of stock depletion were clear for all to see..


Thanks to the EU there's now a very sensible quota policy, which allows for both managed production and stock protection - without that your chippy tea would be extinct.

This is EXACTLY my point. Do you think, that given the facts as you have accurately put them, that we would not have been able to sort this out ourselves? Now we have the exact opposite! Foreign boats raid our fishing grounds with impunity and the EU has either orchestrated it or just allows it. How many other "governments" (and I refer to the EU) would preside over the disgusting situation where tons and tons of good fish are thrown away? This is typical of their ineptitude. "Thanks to the EU there's now a very sensible quota policy, which allows for both managed production and stock protection - without that your chippy tea would be extinct." REALLY???

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I hope you are a good electrician Murdoch.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Is that the same quota policy that will soon see the total demise of not just the fishing fleets, but the coastal towns and villages that support them and yet another facet of our country down the drain? This is a fantastic example of how much the EU care about us.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I hope you are a good electrician Murdoch.

I believe he is. what has that got to do with anything though?

 

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Well it's common knowledge that I'm in the remain camp, however this intelligent, thought provoking and balanced video by those nice Grassroots Out people have made me think again.
I defy any of you 'Inners' to watch and say you're not swayed by their arguments.

https://t.co/ZHW8JYhLwY

They've taken all out fish and money.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

This is EXACTLY my point. Do you think, that given the facts as you have accurately put them, that we would not have been able to sort this out ourselves? Now we have the exact opposite! Foreign boats raid our fishing grounds with impunity and the EU has either orchestrated it or just allows it. How many other "governments" (and I refer to the EU) would preside over the disgusting situation where tons and tons of good fish are thrown away? This is typical of their ineptitude.

The evidence suggests that if the status quo had been maintained then our ability to fish would have been decimated, by ourselfs - there would have been no fish left - stock had already been massively depleted.


Why didn't "we" do anything before the EU had to intervien ?


You give the impression that "foreign" boats are daily raiding the fish from our mouths, thats just more of your scaremongering nonsense. Sure there will be a few who fish without a quota, or in excess of their own, but the fines and the chances of getting caught are massive in relation to the gain.


Handling bycatch was a populist campaign staged for a TV show - if you knew even just a little about the industry you'd know how easy is was to mitigate and minimise the issue, you might also know how HFW is widely castigated for presenting a minor issue as a major problem.


You must be able to come up with a far more compelling reason to leave than this ?


The Empire is gone, we had to give it back as we stole it, those days are long gone - fortunately.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Is that the same quota policy that will soon see the total demise of not just the fishing fleets, but the coastal towns and villages that support them and yet another facet of our country down the drain? This is a fantastic example of how much the EU care about us.

You appear to be under the impression that our fishing communities were some kind of Nirvana pre EU - they were complete and utter cess pits.
It was simply a race to empty the sea as quickly as possible.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I believe he is. what has that got to do with anything though?

His ability to debate is somewhat lacking, but to give him some credit he's rather inventive.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Well it's common knowledge that I'm in the remain camp, however this intelligent, thought provoking and balanced video by those nice Grassroots Out people have made me think again.
I defy any of you 'Inners' to watch and say you're not swayed by their arguments.

https://t.co/ZHW8JYhLwY

They've taken all out fish and money.

That's as indepth an argument as you'll likely ever get.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

This pretty decent market, as you put it, is dead on its Arse.

Could you define "dead on its arse" please ?


The UK does rather a lot of EU trade, nearly 45% on average - how can that level of activity be deemed to be dead ?

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

We already can, we already do .... why would leaving the EU make that any easier ?

Youve forgotten to answer this question as well .....


How does our EU membership prevent or inhibit us from trading outside of the EU ?

 

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Youve forgotten to answer this question as well .....


How does our EU membership prevent or inhibit us from trading outside of the EU ?

While Cameron was touring Europe trying to cut in work benefits to European workers, Hollande was entertaining the Iranian president and singing a 23 billion euro deal with them. The Spanish also did a deal with them.
Someone should tell them that they're not allowed to.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

You appear to be under the impression that our fishing communities were some kind of Nirvana pre EU - they were complete and utter cess pits.
It was simply a race to empty the sea as quickly as possible.

Following your disgraceful comments on our fishing communities I am going to cease this pointless argument. I believe most readers will form their own opinion of you given what you have just written. Maybe you should take yourself off down to Cadgwith or Newlyn and re-iterate it in a few pubs down there.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

While Cameron was touring Europe trying to cut in work benefits to European workers, Hollande was entertaining the Iranian president and singing a 23 billion euro deal with them. The Spanish also did a deal with them.
Someone should tell them that they're not allowed to.

Is that your answer ?

 

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Is that your answer ?

Is that my answer to what?

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Following your disgraceful comments on our fishing communities I am going to cease this pointless argument. I believe most readers will form their own opinion of you given what you have just written. Maybe you should take yourself off down to Cadgwith or Newlyn and re-iterate it in a few pubs down there.

When you've climbed off your high horse, read what I've typed - you'll find plenty that agree with the point I've made, especially those living in fishing industry areas.


The fishing industry didn't care for its surroundings, it just wanted to win the race to empty the sea - its taken decades to reverse the damage done back in those not so good old days.


So, other than the fishing point youve tried to make, what other compelling reasons are there to leave ?

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Is that my answer to what?

How does our EU membership prevent or inhibit us from trading outside of the EU ?

 

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

How does our EU membership prevent or inhibit us from trading outside of the EU ?

Well yes Sean, that is my answer.

If you care to read it, it says that being in the EU does not prevent us from trading outside the EU as France and Spain demonstrated with their rapid response to the lifting of sanctions on Iran.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I hope you are a good electrician Murdoch.

Why ???

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

When you've climbed off your high horse, read what I've typed - you'll find plenty that agree with the point I've made, especially those living in fishing industry areas.


The fishing industry didn't care for its surroundings, it just wanted to win the race to empty the sea - its taken decades to reverse the damage done back in those not so good old days.


So, other than the fishing point youve tried to make, what other compelling reasons are there to leave ?

As I said I am not going to take part in this further, I will just refer you to a couple of things, namely the bar graph at the top of the page and Murdoch's signature, which I think sums things up pretty well in this case.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Why ???

I refer the honerable gentlemen to the answer i gave previously #182

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

As I said I am not going to take part in this further, I will just refer you to a couple of things, namely the bar graph at the top of the page and Murdoch's signature, which I think sums things up pretty well in this case.

I'd rather be an idiot than an ostrich - ah yes, polls on here are always truely indicative of the entire population


How daft of me to ignore that "fact"

 

[UNG]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

It is easy for people to look at the EU through rose tinted glasses and miss the underlying picture.

Back in the 70's the UK was on it's backside the 3 day week, power cuts, wage restraint, hardly a week going by without another strike being called somewhere, the offer of joining a common market in 1975 looked like a good idea and most people believed that is what they were joining yet it's hard to find anyone who voted yes

Since then year on year the EU appears to justify it's existence by creating more and more red tape some of it bordering on crass stupidity did we really need "EC Commission Regulation No 2257/94" and no doubt there are many more similar regulations that are unworkable and / or create massive amounts of waste

If you look around the EU today Greece have been teetering on the edge of financial armageddon for a good while and there are a few other countries not far behind them should they fail, Shengen is causing all sorts of problems and disagreement with the rampaging migration from those crossing the Med to Greece all things considered it looks like a ticking bomb just waiting to go off

We keep on hearing the doom and gloom of how Brexit would affect the UK but how would Brexit affect the EU who would they stealth tax then that is assuming it survives to tax another day as the budgetary black hole would have to be filled by someone but there aren't that many paying in now

There are a lot of questions and unfortunately there are not many reliable and credible answers from either side

 

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

So what's your problem with 2257/94?

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Well it's common knowledge that I'm in the remain camp, however this intelligent, thought provoking and balanced video by those nice Grassroots Out people have made me think again.
I defy any of you 'Inners' to watch and say you're not swayed by their arguments.

https://t.co/ZHW8JYhLwY

Couldn't watch it anymore after 30 seconds, hope it had a happy ending

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

So what's your problem with 2257/94?

Are you being serious??? do you have a lot of shares in a supermarket chain? god help us.