UK Legal Details - Sockets - Where is the requirement for separate socket earths to be linked?

wilmer000 · Mar 15, 2021

I have come across a double socket where the earth terminations aren't linked together - Is this illegal (and what regulation do i look at?) or is it allowed, and I just put the loop-earth in one termination and join the unearthed socket with a length of Earth conductor?

netblindpaul · Mar 16, 2021

telectrix said:
i use adblock. the only ads i see are the forum sponsorson the right side of my screen.

Hassle on mobile devices though and I've not been at a computer so much recently.
Plus I have enough in having to know the details of half a dozen pieces of law, keep up with the changes in these and the several hundred standards that are linked to the product safety legislation without getting involved with any legislation and standards outside this, so I don’t like that the forum has ”gone international”, can’t be bothered to find out the location of the poster, and thus the requirements of the law and standards behind the question. Just too much hassle.

DPG · Mar 16, 2021

netblindpaul said:
Hassle on mobile devices though and I've not been at a computer so much recently.
Plus I have enough in having to know the details of half a dozen pieces of law, keep up with the changes in these and the several hundred standards that are linked to the product safety legislation without getting involved with any legislation and standards outside this, so I don’t like that the forum has ”gone international”, can’t be bothered to find out the location of the poster, and thus the requirements of the law and standards behind the question. Just too much hassle.

One click on the poster's name gives you their location. Just ignore any non UK ones. And the American and Australian ones have their own section anyway.

Strima · Mar 16, 2021

So it turned up today. As pointed out by the OP there's no continuity across the earth terminations. If this was installed in a ring final the CPC would be discontinuous, two or more would mean sockets with no CPC present. If installed in a radial circuit every single socket afterwards would have no CPC.

Sorry the pictures are on the lash...

[ElectriciansForums.net] Legal Details - Sockets - Where is the requirement for separate socket earths to be linked?

The only time you may get CPC continuity is if you installed this accessory in a metal backbox with fixed lugs. But the earth tags are loose and rely on the clamping screw to secure them in place.

The instructions are minimal bordering on dangerous, no mention of earth continuity.

Overall the unit feels cheap and tatty, I also found it difficult to put a BS1363 plug into the socket without excessive force.

Even the fixing screws are sharp, I haven't measured them but they look oversize.

My advice, stay away, if you have one fitted or see it on an installation get rid.

I'll be in touch with electrical safety first shortly.

pc1966 · Mar 16, 2021

That really is a rubbish design and hopefully trading standards will do something about them. Ideally stop sales and force a product recall.

As you say, it is going to lead to no CPCs in one or more location depending on how it is installed unless someone is very diligent and discovered CPC links are needed at every socket.

Realistically, it is a fatal accident waiting to happen.

Lucien Nunes · Mar 16, 2021

Deeply ambiguous instructions - show two G/Y cables but only refer to one - and patchy construction. Those contacts look pretty awful, they might be tight now (or undersize) but I wouldn't trust them to make good contact in five years time. No matter, the soldering of the line contacts to the PCB will probably have given way with metal fatigue by then if they get much use. Flimsy-looking line input termination that probably won't last at 20A.

OTOH it looks like the PCB itself might be reasonably well designed. There seems to be good creepage distance across the barrier c/w slotting where needed e.g under the relays and at the SMPSU transformer. The critical components such as the Y-cap across the barrier, non-flam / fusible resistors etc seem correctly specified and not skimped, although it's the electrolytics that will surely decide its fate and I can't see their faces. Personally I'd have given the relays a bit more airflow but I've seen worse.

Anyway, will be interesting to hear what if anything you get back. I won't be fitting any.

Strima · Mar 16, 2021

So you all have a choice now, JW or Big Clive?

Lucien Nunes · Mar 16, 2021

Or me? Launch my channel with it?

DPG · Mar 16, 2021

Lucien Nunes said:
Or me? Launch my channel with it?

Go for it!

nicebutdim · Mar 16, 2021

Kudos to the OP for spotting this. I wonder how many of these are out in the wild, just waiting for the worst to happen...

brianmoooore · Mar 16, 2021

Strima said:
I'll be in touch with electrical safety first shortly.

Be interesting to see what CEF have to say as well, since it appears they supply them. You expect cheap, non compliant tat on ebay and Amazon, but not from a major trade supplier.

Strima · Mar 16, 2021

Lucien Nunes said:
Or me? Launch my channel with it?

If you want it.

Lucien Nunes · Mar 16, 2021

Go on then. I promise not to set it on fire* or subject it to gratuitous violence.

*with petrol, although if it catches fire with electricity, that is its own lookout.

Strima · Mar 16, 2021

Lucien Nunes said:
Go on then. I promise not to set it on fire* or subject it to gratuitous violence.

*with petrol, although if it catches fire with electricity, that is its own lookout.

Message me your address and I’ll get it sent tomorrow. Hermes or Post Office?

netblindpaul · Mar 16, 2021

wilmer000 said:
So it is legal to have two separate unlinked earth terminals in a socket? BS 1363-2 doesn't seem to specify there must be a single termination, but it doesn't seem right to me as you could end up wiring one side of the loop into each termination, and split the earth loop by accident. either that or you end up with an unearthed socket. (or have to fit a link between the two. ) but is it legal? that's the question!

The law is not as specific as to give the level of detail you seek.
The EHSR’s of the law merely require the product to be safe.
A BS is not law and is not mandatory.
However deviations from a BS would mean that the manufacturers would have to be able to justify the same or greater safety than afforded by following the relevant BS product standards.
(much simplified explanation)

netblindpaul · Mar 16, 2021

Strima said:
So you all have a choice now, JW or Big Clive?

Electrical Safety First.
Please give them as much detail as possible.

UK Legal Details - Sockets - Where is the requirement for separate socket earths to be linked?

wilmer000

netblindpaul

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DPG

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Strima

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pc1966

Lucien Nunes

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Strima

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Lucien Nunes

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DPG

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nicebutdim

brianmoooore

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Strima

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Lucien Nunes

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Strima

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netblindpaul

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netblindpaul

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