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John-SJW

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A small under counter AEG fridge. Instructions say it is fitted with a 13A fuse in the plug. Also states it must be replaced by a 13A fuse. The fridge is drawing 0.32 amps. A 13A fuse is ridiculously oversized. If having a mcb or RCBO at the CU for just the fridge, a 1.00mm cable can be run on a radial for it.

The instructions do say that a qualified or competent electrician must fit the appliance, so a get out for them. If the electrician say 3A will do then that is that I suppose. Do many ignore these types of instructions and say insert a 3A fuse in the plug? Safer.
 
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Where are you getting these 6A plug fuses? 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 10 and 13 are the ratings I know of.

This discussion is about domestic appliances made to recognised standards and designed to be used by unskilled persons, not components of an electrical installation. Are you saying the instructions require the fridge to be installed by a competent electrician, even when simply being plugged into a socket outlet using the supplied plug?

Modern appliances are intended to safe when protected by a B16 or 16A gG fuse as this is what they will have in many countries. Outside the UK, the appliance flex and plug are protected against short-circuit by the same 16A MCB in the board that protects the wiring against short-circuit and overload. The appliance must have its own internal protection against overload. In the UK we have 13A sockets on 32A circuits so one OCPD can't protect both, requiring us to put a fuse in the plug as well. But for the most part, that is what the plug fuse does; deals with the discrepancy between a 32A circuit and a 0.75 - 1.25mm² flex.

By all means put 1A fuses in your lamps and 5A fuse in your toaster. There are no surges to consider and no harm in it. But the thread was about the specific case of a hermetic refrigeration compressor that can have a high stall current under abnormal restart, that is equipped with a Klixon to prevent overheating and a flex suitable for S/C protection at 16A, and for which the manufacturer recommends a 13A fuse. Here it makes sense not to go as low as possible simply to reduce the splash in the very unlikely event that the flex gets crushed.
 
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I am saying use common sense, not go by instructions from manufacturers (some dodgy) from other parts of the world, which probably have never heard of a ring circuit, or some cover all reg. Make it safer.
 
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Common sense disappeared with a 16A EU supply.
and 3A or 13A choices.
(I blame the accountants - if choice costs money -Why so many shampoos )
Come back 5A , my surge choice for below 750W. Will still fail in time on some.
 
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Last lime I got 7A & 10As I was told may try and standardise to 3A and 13A ,
due to EU , modern flex size rules.
( and risk of customer incompetence - so is that an insurance thing ?)
 
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I have seen integrated appliances that come with a 13A plug, with the instructions saying it must be used. This can be cut off and fitted to an FCU. But many take what the instructions say as gospel, fitting a 13A socket behind a screwed-in integrated appliance.

Socket and plugs are for portable appliances. Permanently fitted appliance with a high current draw should not use sockets and plugs.
 
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Has anyone (Lucien?) measured the stall current of a typical domestic fridge, while it's bouncing off the klixon, waiting for the pressure to leak away?
 
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Has anyone (Lucien?) measured the stall current of a typical domestic fridge, while it's bouncing off the klixon, waiting for the pressure to leak away?
Click to expand...
Not recently, and we should. The OP has a point that the current is lower than it used to be, and might not be a problem on a smaller fuse which might be acceptable. Regardless, I contend that the 13A fuse is not 'wrong' as was the premise of the thread, any more than the 3A fuse in my heating system FCU is 'wrong' because a 2A would work.
 
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DPG said:
Nothing wrong at all with a washer or dryer plugged in using a 13A plug and socket.
Click to expand...
I saw in the innards of a 13A sockets supplying a well used dryer drawing 12A. Lots of burnt parts in the plug and socket. This happens:

[ElectriciansForums.net] Fuse too big on fridge


[ElectriciansForums.net] Fuse too big on fridge


[ElectriciansForums.net] Fuse too big on fridge
 
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It would help if 13A plugs were sold with 3A fuses fitted by default, instead of almost always 13A.
Click to expand...

Then the people-who-don't-bother-to-change-the-fuse will use the 3A-equipped plugs on 1kW loads and cook the plugs and sockets. You can't win, except by getting rid of plug fuses. None of these issues in most of the rest of world; just plug the thing in and use it.
 
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Lucien Nunes said:
I contend that the 13A fuse is not 'wrong' as was the premise of the thread, any more than the 3A fuse in my heating system FCU is 'wrong' because a 2A would work.
Click to expand...
There is little between 2A and 3A, as opposed to a draw of 0.32 A and 13A. The difference is massive.

What I am saying use common sense do not go by 'we always do that', regs or instructions (some dodgy for sure). Think safe.
 
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And the issue of 13A plugs being sold with 13A fuses pre fitted is a minor issue now, bearing in mind everything has had to come with a plug and fuse pre-fitted to the appliance for many years.

I agree it was a problem years ago when people had to fit their own plugs when they bought things.
 
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Lucien Nunes said:
Then the people-who-don't-bother-to-change-the-fuse will use the 3A-equipped plugs on 1kW loads and cook the plugs and sockets.
Click to expand...
Mmmm, can't think of many inductive domestic loads of around 1kW. Most - heaters, hair drier, tumble drier, kettle, etc., are more like 2kW, and would pop a 3A fairly quickly.
 
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DPG said:
Different issue completely. That's a bad connection. I've also seen damage at the connections of 13A sockets due to loose connections.

Are you saying washers and dryers shouldn't be connected via 13A plugs and sockets ???
Click to expand...
If they are heavy use...no. My dryer is on an FCU. The connection behind the dryer is on Wagos, which gives a better contact than screwed terminals. Screwed can also work loose over time. The Wagos also give a quick disconnect in case of appliance replacement. The appliance is on its own radial with its own RCBO.
 
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John-SJW said:
If they are heavy use...no. My dryer is on an FCU. The connection behind the dryer is on Wagos, which gives a better contact than screwed terminals. Screwed can also work loose over time. The Wagos also give a quick disconnect in case of appliance replacement. The appliance is on its own radial with its own RCBO.
Click to expand...

There is no issue with a dryer being plugged into a 13A socket.

Yes, if there is a loose connection, or a cheap brand socket is used then there could be problems. But you can say that about anything. There could be a loose connection at the screw terminals of the RCBO.
 
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DPG said:
There is no issue with a dryer being plugged into a 13A socket.

Yes, if there is a loose connection, or a cheap brand socket is used then there could be problems. But you can say that about anything. There could be a loose connection at the screw terminals of the RCBO.
Click to expand...
People I know with a large family. The dryer was hardly ever off. I looked at the plug and socket seeing brown marks. I fitted an FCU then to a box with Wagos inside with dryer cable running into the box - for easy disconnect, as I could see frequent appliance changes. That was five years ago. No brown marks to be seen.

Someone who uses a dryer once or twice a week for 45 mins a time, then it will probably be fine. Heavy use? A 13A plug? Think again.
 
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