15Amp immersion plug

[sparkie141]

I would agree with what Murdoch said - Get customer to contact electrician and have him quote BS7671 Reg which is contravened by such an arrangement.
Sounds like a typical EICR comment from a sparkie that comes across something he doesn't normally see then deems it C2 - potentially dangerous, urgent remedial action required!!
Gives us all a bad name, just because it is not how you would do it or what is seen regularly does not necessarily make it potentially dangerous.
I have seen such an arrangement a few times on older installations: 15/16A Radial circuit to 20A DP w/neon "WATER HEATER" switch in kitchen or utility then off to HWC cupboard terminating in a 15A socket with final connection made via 15A plug top and HR flex to immersion heater.
I really don't see a problem with this unless there is evidence of heat damage to connections, installation is in a bathroom (OP indicates this is not the case), the plug is getting used as the method of functional switching or all other sockets in the house are also 15A and the immersion socket is not RCD protected and may reasonably be expected to supply equipment outdoors :wink_smile:
It's not a method I would choose personally but subject to above I can't see the problem. I like final connection via 20A DP switch with flex outlet for 3Kw 240V immersion - 13A FCUs can overheat and burn out when used on constantly used immersion heaters e.g. E7 arrangements.

 

[FAA Greenie]

I'm still after advice on the paperwork i would supply to say it's now safe if someone else did the initial test

All you need to do is provide the customer with an invoice detailing the work that you have carried out to rectify the work. They then need to staple that invoice to the original EICR.

If the work warrants a cert, that covers it too

 

[westmac]

I just did a quick bit of mental arithmetic as in 3000 div 230 and then 240!! hey presto 13 and 12.5!! ...lol!! Youre problem is, that you're using a make believe nominal voltage, rather than the real voltage!!

"Your problem is" that you're forgetting which part of the power calculation in this instance is constant. The resistance, apart from a slight variation through increased conductor/element temperature is the constant. The power is not constant at all.

If you introduce a greater potential difference across this fixed resistance you get an increased flow of current, with increased current you get a hotter element as well as a higher power consumption.

This is electricity 101.

 

[electrician4u]

All you need to do is provide the customer with an invoice detailing the work that you have carried out to rectify the work. They then need to staple that invoice to the original EICR.

If the work warrants a cert, that covers it too

ok, thanks. so the fact that on the report the installation is rated as unsatisfactory is not a problem as long as the invoice states that the faults are now resolved?

 

[electrician4u]

I think all the calculations going on have veered from the initial question of whether a 15A plug and socket need to be changed and warrent a c2.what about the rule that if it previously complied, it's not necessarily unsafe.and on that subject, unless you've been an electrician since the first edition, how would you know if something was permitted before?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

554.3.3 prohibits the use of a plug and socket to connect water heaters having immersed and uninsulated elements. This often causes confusion as some take this reg to apply to normal domestic elements. It applies only to a type of element I have never come across.
It is possible that the C2 has been applied based on this reg.

 

[Rockingit]

Deleted

 

[Geoffsd]

I think all the calculations going on have veered from the initial question of whether a 15A plug and socket need to be changed and warrent a c2.what about the rule that if it previously complied, it's not necessarily unsafe.and on that subject, unless you've been an electrician since the first edition, how would you know if something was permitted before?

May I ask what 15A plugs are for?

 

[Octopus]

May I ask what 15A plugs are for?

Old installations

 

[Geoffsd]

So, not compliant with latest regs. but still safe - C3?

 

[spark 68]

554.3.3 prohibits the use of a plug and socket to connect water heaters having immersed and uninsulated elements. This often causes confusion as some take this reg to apply to normal domestic elements. It applies only to a type of element I have never come across.
It is possible that the C2 has been applied based on this reg.

It also may have failed due to the 553.1 group of regs, mainly 553.1.100 where every socket outlet for domestic use shall be of the shuttered type and for AC use preferably of a type complying with BS1363.

553.1.3 and 553.1.5 seem to contradict 551.1.100 somewhat, in that table 55.1 implies that a 15A BS 546 S/O is acceptable.

As to C2, is it a bit harsh ?, would a C3 been a fair call ?, I suppose it is down to the spark on the ground on the day.

 

[Marvo]

554.3.3 prohibits the use of a plug and socket to connect water heaters having immersed and uninsulated elements. This often causes confusion as some take this reg to apply to normal domestic elements. It applies only to a type of element I have never come across.
It is possible that the C2 has been applied based on this reg.

That reg would be a bit ambiguous to me. I'd class a standard domestic tube element as being insulated, it is earthed after all. An uninsulated element to me would mean an electrode type boiler where AC power isapplied directly to the immersed plates and the load current actually flows through the water being heated but I've never seen these in a domestic application, only in industrial steam generators. If the reg refers to an electrode heater though why doesn't it refer to them by name?

 

[Engineer54]

"Your problem is" that you're forgetting which part of the power calculation in this instance is constant. The resistance, apart from a slight variation through increased conductor/element temperature is the constant. The power is not constant at all.

If you introduce a greater potential difference across this fixed resistance you get an increased flow of current, with increased current you get a hotter element as well as a higher power consumption.

This is electricity 101.

I'm doing nothing of the sort, the fact is, you're all applying 230V criteria to a power system that has a nominal voltage of 240 volts!! As i said earlier, 230volts is all make believe ...or a fairly tale if you like!! lol!!

 

[electrician4u]

554.3.3 prohibits the use of a plug and socket to connect water heaters having immersed and uninsulated elements. This often causes confusion as some take this reg to apply to normal domestic elements. It applies only to a type of element I have never come across.
It is possible that the C2 has been applied based on this reg.

but the regs are for new installations, not to bring every old installation up to the current regs, so why would a plug and socket fail anymore than having re-wirable fuses, for example?

 

[spark 68]

but the regs are for new installations, not to bring every old installation up to the current regs, so why would a plug and socket fail anymore than having re-wirable fuses, for example?

Un-shrouded pins possibly ?, or as another poster said a misunderstanding ?, the point is, if the inspecting spark is unhappy with something then he should have put the reg it contravenes in the report, personal preference does not come into it, C2 may have been a bit harsh, but without knowing the reasoning behind it we cannot criticize.