3 phase domestic supply

[John-SJW]

I watched this vid on Youtube. Interesting. They have 3 phase supplies. Does anyone know the cost of upgrading from a single to a 3 phase domestic supply?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7wxNtrorQ&lc=UgyPTN2d89tBByfm4Dx4AaABAg.9CrcYe7x50b9CsC6DnPJKw

 

[davesparks]

Washer fluid? Are you kidding?
All of those do not need an annual service. The onboard computer will tell the driver if and when they need attention.

No I'm not kidding, that will be found on the service list for most vehicles.
Whilst the service may not be annually, which is something you introduced after your initial statement that no servicing is required, servicing will still be required.

It's a complex machine, it will need servicing in order to maintain peak performance and get the best lifespan, they all do.

Manufacturers, and marketing people, will claim that no servicing is required, but that's just bull to make thro products sound good and encourage the culture of obsolescence. If manufacturers can convince you to never have a vehicle serviced then they will be cashing in when your vehicle fails due to lack of servicing.

 

[John-SJW]

EVs are not complex. They are simple with few moving parts.

 

[davesparks]

EVs are not complex. They are simple with few moving parts.

Seriously? Are you really going to try and argue that an EV is a simple machine?

Do please give us your argument for them being a simple machine.

Maybe start with the basics, of the six simple machines which one do you think they are?

 

[nicebutdim]

All mechanical and electrical sytems require some degree of maintenance. Some components may be sealed and "maintenance free", which means throw away and replace complete assembly.

Battery prices fluctate according to market prices for their raw materials.

If Toyota have produced a battery which has proven capacity loss of just 10% over 30 years, that will be an incredible leap forward from current mass produced technology.


I'm not opposed to EVs at all, but having looked (several times over the years) at the numbers I can not come close to making the case for driving one myself.

I'm also not "fond" of owning any type of vehicle as they're a significant drain on income. If there was no need to run a vehicle in order to earn a living and ferry kids around, I'd be happy to get rid of mine and cut my expenditure by a not inconsiderable amount.

I'm happy for anyone to own an EV, but would suggest they look at all angles before making, what is, a significant investment,
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No friction brakes? No hydraulics to operate them? No mechanical steering linkages? No suspension? No bodywork to rust?

I'm really keen to know how their wheels turn on fixed hubs.


In all seriousness I would buy an EV tomorrow if the financial argument came anywhere close to viable. Maybe EVs are great in cities, but below are my requirements which I'd welcome anyone to make a recommendation on:

5 seat estate car.
Daily mileage varies from 20-300 miles.
Live in a hilly area and often tow reasonably heavy loads.

Current vehicle costs around £300 per year in servicing and maintenance and I'll expect one major repair at around £1000 during my ownership, which will probably be 8-10 years. Average mpg during my ownership is showing as 57.7 and costs £30-£40 each week to fuel. It's 5 years old and bought recently at 80k miles for £4k.

Previous vehicle was very similar and crunching all the numbers I've never managed to find any way of running an EV for similar annual costs - not even in the same ball park.

 

[davesparks]

Don't forget that realistically to own an EV you need a driveway.
Or like the guy round the corner from me you have to run a lead out of your window, over the pavement and into your EV at the side of the road.
He also 'reserves' the part of the street directly in front of his house with pallets when he goes out in the EV otherwise someone else will park there and he won't be able to charge it at all.

If I had an EV I'd have to run a lead out of a window and across our neighbours garden into the communal parking area (again if I've managed to get in to it and haven't ended up parking on the street down the road somewhere)

In a few weeks I'm moving to a top floor flat,

Plus anyone, like me, who is renting likely won't be able to have a charger installed, or even an outdoor socket.

So yeah, EVs are great for those people who own houses with driveways.

A far better reduction in pollution happened when everyone started working from home in March than I think EVs will ever bring about.

 

[John-SJW]

EVs are approaching the price of ICE cars. Once parity, then they will just take off. Look at the Tony Seba video.

I have two EV chargers on the pavement on my road. Fast chargers are everywhere. Shell are having one fast charger at every petrol station, with a schedule in place to phase out petrol pumps, as EVs take over. One station in London is now to be all EV charging.

I agree, cars are a pain. But! The advances in battery technology will cascade to homes. We will all see the changes if not in EVs, because we may not own one.

 

[davesparks]

I have two EV chargers on the pavement on my road. Fast chargers are everywhere. Shell are having one fast charger at every petrol station, with a schedule in place to phase out petrol pumps, as EVs take over. One station in London is now to be all EV charging.

Everywhere is a bit of an overstatement, there's a handful in a couple of car parks near here, but nowhere near enough to cater for a mass move to EVs and certainly not everywhere!

Petrol pumps won't be phased out for a very long time.

Yes EV chargers are mor prevalent in London, but that is to be expected and can't be taken as representative of the whole country.

 

[John-SJW]

Everywhere is a bit of an overstatement, there's a handful in a couple of car parks near here, but nowhere near enough to cater for a mass move to EVs and certainly not everywhere!

Petrol pumps won't be phased out for a very long time.

Yes EV chargers are mor prevalent in London, but that is to be expected and can't be taken as representative of the whole country.

Wise up. When EVs start to take over the chargers will be everywhere. They will be installed very quickly. Did you look at the Tony Seba video? The mass take up of ICE cars in 10 years? Unless you look at the vid it is best not comment on EVs.

 

[ferg]

Youtube is great source of entertainment but by nature is not the best place to get factual information.

The debate on this thread seems to be coming from two directions.
The current state of EV's and the charging infrastructure with a dose of realism and scepticism of marketing blurb. vs where it is hoped EV's and charging infrastructure will be in the future which is by nature driven by marketing blurb and hype.

I'm not sure anyone disagrees that EV's are a big part of the future but the reality for most of us is that it's a long way away and the current infrastructure is woefully inadequate.

I'd love to have EV's instead of fossil fuel burning vehicles but reality won't let me. I look forward to the day when I do.

There are some very real environmental, social and safety concerns over the mining of the materials required to build EV's which need to be addressed and that will only happen if the people who buy EV's show concern over it, in the same way we are now showing concern over the damage fossil fuels cause.

 

[mattg4321]

Wonder if this Tony Seba can let me know the lottery numbers for next weekend too.

I can’t think of even 1 EV charger in a public place within 5 miles of my house. Probably 100k people live in that area.

 

[John-SJW]

I'm not sure anyone disagrees that EV's are a big part of the future but the reality for most of us is that it's a long way away and the current infrastructure is woefully inadequate.

Based on the take up the ICE car, smart phone, colour TV, etc, EVs will be with us a lot quicker than you think. Tony Seba is not hype, he is highly respected in his field. He actually underestimate the level of EV take up in 2014. At the time they said he was fantasising. He goes by historical data, then projecting to new technology take up. One EV is now in the price range of new ICE cars. Even Dyson and Apple are talking about getting into EVs. The National Grid man I linked to is not hype either.

The only hype is misinformation, and outright lies and propaganda by vested interests in oil and ICE cars. Look at what GM and Firestone did to the trams in LA. They bought the trams up in the 1930s and then scrapped them to sell more cars and tyres. The sensible ICE car manufacturers are turning over to EVs. To maximise profit they have to get into battery manufacture as Daimler Benz, Toyota, etc, are.

For two to three years a friend has owned a Tesla. Brilliant to drive, the best. He has no problem charging it with chargers everywhere. A Smart Phone app will give you the nearest charger. Having a decent charger on the drive does help as it fills the tank when you are in bed, and keeps the running costs super low. He rarely uses garage chargers, as most of the time his batteries are on, or near, full charge. At over 300 miles range he sometime only charges once ever 10 or 14 days. Fast chargers are at every Mway service station.

I read some developers are fitting EV chargers as standard in some new homes. I also read on this forum that some Sparks are fully engaged only fitting these. Big business it seems, which is also an indication of the way the market is going.

Chrystal ball gazing. The country looks to be heading towards phasing out of fossil fuel burning in homes. So, what will that entail looking at battery advances? Will instant electric water heating at say 22kW (like a gas combi) be available from a single phase supply? Using a Powerwall type of battery charged up from the grid, and or solar panels, higher kW appliances than 11.5kW are feasible.
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Wonder if this Tony Seba can let me know the lottery numbers for next weekend too.

I tried. But sadly previous lottery numbers are no indication of future lottery numbers.

I can’t think of even 1 EV charger in a public place within 5 miles of my house. Probably 100k people live in that area.

Try Google. You will be amazed.

 

[mattg4321]

Smart phones and TV’s don’t require any infrastructure to be upgraded.

You seem to have been taken in by only one side of the debate. Are you sure you haven’t sunk your life savings into Tesla or something?

 

[John-SJW]

Smart phones and TV’s don’t require any infrastructure to be upgraded.

You seem to have been taken in by only one side of the debate.

I can say the same about you. I have taken the bother to find out, you appear not to have done.

Are you sure you haven’t sunk your life savings into Tesla or something?

I have an old Toyota.
The infrastructure is here, it is called the grid. Electricity is everywhere, even in the sticks. EV chargers on drives are easily fitted. Fast chargers are easily fitted, as Shell are doing, who are to phase out all petrol stations. No kidding.

The charging infrastructure is being fitted by councils, and mainly private companies, all over the UK.

It took 10 years to move from horses to petrol cars. That is abandoning of the:

• The breeding of the horses;
• Disposing of dead horses;
• The stables;
• The carts;
• The buggies;
• The maintenance of the carts and buggies;
• The fodder;
• The clearing of the tons of horse manure in the streets each day;
  The disposal of the horse manure;
• etc;

Then the adoption of the ICE car, with:

1. The factories set up;
2. The maintenance of the cars with garages;
3. The training of the mechanics;
4. the distribution of petrol - initially petrol was sold in chemists;
5. The construction of the roads;

The introduction of the ICE car produced many huge industries:

• Car manufacture;
• Car maintenance;
• Oil industry;
• Rubber industry;
• Road construction industry.

All in 10 years. We are half way to that point in EVs.

 

[mattg4321]

What upgrades do you expect the local network infrastructure to need? It's not all about power stations. You should also factor in the large take up of electric cooking and heating, ie. air source heat pumps mainly.

You can't seriously expect PV to take up this amount of slack in the UK, where we often don't see direct sunlight for days at a time. Yes it may happen in time, but not in the timeframe you seem to be expecting.

 

[nicebutdim]

No one has disputed that EVs are going to become much more popular.

What is being disputed is the overall costs involved and the ability of the UK's power grid to cope with a steep rise in demand - at least in its current condition.