63 Amp Isolator

[Redvanman]

I'm running a 63A supply for a cooker and need to have a local isolator.
Apart from having a 63A main switch in a small enclosure, is there any thing else I could use which is discreet to put in the back of a cupboard.

Thanks

 

[Kate]

I would always install an isolation switch to a cooker. I will mark as an observation/issue if a cooker had no isolation too

 

[D Skelton]

which doesn't necessarily prevent a N-E fault tripping the RCD.

You're quite right, it doesn't. But then a N-E fault could occur on any circuit at any point. Should we have local isolation at every point of utilisation, and then local isolation protecting each point of local isolation??

Best practice or personal opinions aside. A cooker does NOT 'need' local isolation. In fact, find the words 'local' and 'isolation' next to each other in the BGB and I'd be flabbergasted!

 

[Redvanman]

537.2.1.2 can be met by the MCB. It could NOT be met by using a cooker control unit, so that one is irrelevant.

537.3.1.2 can be met by the use of a locking off device.

Try again.

had a feeling you'd come back with that plus I just read on next page it saying a mcb can be used as a isolator.
god damn it i was taking everyone down the pub.

any way the thread has been hijacked some what, what about the isolator weather you use one or not cos i do

 

[Octopus]

You're quite right, it doesn't. But then a N-E fault could occur on any circuit at any point. Should we have local isolation at every point of utilisation, and then local isolation protecting each point of local isolation??

Best practice or personal opinions aside. A cooker does NOT 'need' local isolation. In fact, find the words 'local' and 'isolation' next to each other in the BGB and I'd be flabbergasted!

Good practice says to me that every fixed appliance that can not be DP isolated by pulling out a plug (and not having to move an appliance) should have a DP isolator.

If you must persist with your it doesn't need a isolator I would concede ONLY IF the cooker was on a dedicated RCBO

 

[Redvanman]

I know my NICEIC inspector would be telling me I shouldnt be doing it. He made a comment when I installed a cooker isolator switch in a cupboard as per customers request.

Do you ever have inspections?

What a knob you could put it anywhere who wants a chuffing great switch on show

 

[7029 dave]

the way i see it 45amp dp switch will do the job or am i missing somthing!!

 

[Redvanman]

Good practice says to me that every fixed appliance that can not be DP isolated by pulling out a plug (and not having to move an appliance) should have a DP isolator.

If you must persist with your it doesn't need a isolator I would concede ONLY IF the cooker was on a dedicated RCBO

It won't be

 

[Redvanman]

the way i see it 45amp dp switch will do the job or am i missing somthing!!

Not rated at 63A

 

[D Skelton]

I know my NICEIC inspector would be telling me I shouldnt be doing it. He made a comment when I installed a cooker isolator switch in a cupboard as per customers request.

Do you ever have inspections?

I couldn't give a monkeys what your scam inspector tells you especially as he's talking out of his ---- orifice! Seems the pedestal you've put your inspector on is just a little too high.

I do have inspections funnily enough, in fact the last inspection I had I recall a conversation between myself and my inspector where I was teaching him about capacitance. He clearly had a lack of fundamental knowledge regarding the scientific principles of electrical installation and couldn't understand why I was using one on a particular circuit.

If in doubt, shove the regs book in their face, because that is what we work to, not 'club' rules!

I would always install an isolation switch to a cooker. I will mark as an observation/issue if a cooker had no isolation too

If you would code a cooker with no local switch then you've no business carrying out EICRs.

A mention would be all it would warrant, if that.

 

[Mike66]

I have, and would again. Find me a reg that says I shouldt be doing so!

I dont think this is setting a good example to out eastern european or Electrical Trainee friends.

 

[D Skelton]

I dont think this is setting a good example to out eastern european or Electrical Trainee friends.

I couldn't give a damn about what example I'm setting! If some block head or 5 week chancer is going to bad mouth my work or my methods then god help them! And anyone with half a brain that goes in and codes my work because I haven't done something that isn't required anyway has no business calling themselves an electrician. Every piece of work I have ever done complies with BS 7671! I have fitted cookers with AND without 'local' isolation. This argument is meaningless, I am right! Best practice and personal opinion are completely different to what is required by regulation. Besides, we're talking about a bleeding cooker here! A cooker! Hardly talking point of the decade is it?!?

If it makes the OP happy, whack a nice big Glasgow fused switch next to the cooker, who cares, tell/lie to the customer when they see it and kick off that it is a 'REQUIREMENT' and that you don't care one jot about being reasonable and that NIC rules are the bees knees! No one cares about the fact that they've spent £10k on their new kichen and they've now got to put up with that ugly grey metal box on the wall, just as long as it can turn the circuit off in the event that at some point in the next 30-40 years a N-E fault occurs with the cooker.

RVM, do what you want mate, the info is there. You don't need local isolation. Whether or not you choose to install it is entirely up to you and you're a$$ is covered either way.

 

[Redvanman]

I couldn't give a damn about what example I'm setting! If some block head or 5 week chancer is going to bad mouth my work or my methods then god help them! And anyone with half a brain that goes in and codes my work because I haven't done something that isn't required anyway has no business calling themselves an electrician. Every piece of work I have ever done complies with BS 7671! I have fitted cookers with AND without 'local' isolation. This argument is meaningless, I am right! Best practice and personal opinion are completely different to what is required by regulation. Besides, we're talking about a bleeding cooker here! A cooker! Hardly talking point of the decade is it?!?

If it makes the OP happy, whack a nice big Glasgow fused switch next to the cooker, who cares, tell/lie to the customer when they see it and kick off that it is a 'REQUIREMENT' and that you don't care one jot about being reasonable and that NIC rules are the bees knees! No one cares about the fact that they've spent £10k on their new kichen and they've now got to put up with that ugly grey metal box on the wall, just as long as it can turn the circuit off in the event that at some point in the next 30-40 years a N-E fault occurs with the cooker.

RVM, do what you want mate, the info is there. You don't need local isolation. Whether or not you choose to install it is entirely up to you and you're a$$ is covered either way.

Calm down your gonna burst some thing.
i think a Glasgow is a bit extreme lol
wish I hadn't asked now I think I will stick to my little main switch in an enclosure in the cupboard

 

[kingeri]

As the BGB doesn't call for local isolation, the only reason I can see you being obliged to fit it is if the manufacturers instructions call for it. Or if the customer wants it. Or if the switch is gonna be used for functional switching. In the event of a fault, a DP isolator might be handy, but the absence of one is hardly gonna fox a spark who knows what's what!

That's my two penneth, for what it's worth.

 

[7029 dave]

thats news to me mr D i thought you needed isolation (dp)with any fixed applaince

 

[D Skelton]

Calm down your gonna burst some thing.
i think a Glasgow is a bit extreme lol
wish I hadn't asked now I think I will stick to my little main switch in an enclosure in the cupboard

I'm calm mate, don't worry. I don't mind a bit of civilised discussion as to the pros and cons of installing or not installing a local isolator for a cooker, but what I can't abide by is the completely uneducated, amateur and frankly rude reaction by some that my work is somehow setting bad examples.

Like I said, you have the info you need, you have a choice of options, what you choose is up to you

 

[D Skelton]

As the BGB doesn't call for local isolation, the only reason I can see you being obliged to fit it is if the manufacturers instructions call for it. Or if the customer wants it. Or if the switch is gonna be used for functional switching. In the event of a fault, a DP isolator might be handy, but the absence of one is hardly gonna fox a spark who knows what's what!

That's my two penneth, for what it's worth.

Thank God! Some reasoned response at last! Lol

 

[Mike66]

Devices for emergency switching 537.4.2.5

 

[kingeri]

Thank God! Some reasoned response at last! Lol

Just being logical I suppose. Thinking more broadly about isolation (not cookers), the times I generally fit it are when it is specifically mentioned in the instructions, otherwise it is often a side affect of fusing down. I have been known to fit a switched FCU when a non-switched would do, just because it was what I had to hand.

 

[D Skelton]

Devices for emergency switching 537.4.2.5

That section is really referring to motor control and safety cicuits, completely non relevant to domestic cookers however if you really want to be pedantic, a 'means of operation' is not the same as 'isolation'.

 

[Mike66]

A cooker control unit switch BS4177 is used for isolation, emergency switching & functional switching as per page 149 BGB

 

[D Skelton]

It is suitable for emergency switching, yes. But will it ever be used for it? No.

 

[Guitarist]

If the manufacturers instructions call for DP isolation, then that is required to comply with regs.

 

[D Skelton]

If the manufacturers instructions call for DP isolation, then that is required to comply with regs.

Can't disagree with that, but then again, if the instructions call for a smiley face to be drawn on every one of their accessories then guess what... Lol. Kinda irrelevant to this debate but I see where you're going

 

[Mike66]

It is suitable for emergency switching, yes. But will it ever be used for it? No.

Yes why not?

 

[Guitarist]

Can't disagree with that, but then again, if the instructions call for a smiley face to be drawn on every one of their accessories then guess what... Lol. Kinda irrelevant to this debate but I see where you're going

Irrelevant? DP isolation isn't really in the same category as a smiley face....
Just look at the whole damned 3 amp fan fusing fiasco to see how important following manufacturers instructions are nowadays.