AFDDs and SPDs has anyone read up on these things yet?

[Pete999]

I only ask because there is some useful bits printed in the New OSG which may be useful, if anyone has seen these information snippets it would be nice to see your thoughts, only if you can be bothered that is.

 

[Baddegg]

Manufacturers better get a lick on, if they are going to 'recommended' to be install in the domestic market by Jan next year.

Going to be a viscous circle though surely,if they are only recommended for domestic I can’t see many people opting to pay the large costs involved which means the price of them will remain high?

 

[Pete999]

I guess before the use of SPDDs are specified then the their use may not be required reg 443.1 table 443.2 should be looked at, AFDDS are only recommended regulation 537.6

I doubt many SPDDs will get used in Domestic, best read the regulation before you make your mind up.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I noticed yesterday that rexel group now have the lewden spds in and are quite reasonably priced. told afdd are in the pipe line. price will come down quite quickly a bit like rcbos

 

[Toneyz]

Yes, Just as I expected Andy, it could have been a better idea if I had the actual regs book, but as I'm not practicing anymore it seemed a bit of a tall ask to buy both books, and the GNs to follow on with, I'm sure things will become clearer as time goes by.

How much were they selling the OSG for? I know the lady said to be the price of the regs book which was cheaper than Denmans. Bit reluctant to get one yet as the cynical in me tells me they will come out with a reprint as it has errors.

 

[Pete999]

How much were they selling the OSG for? I know the lady said to be the price of the regs book which was cheaper than Denmans. Bit reluctant to get one yet as the cynical in me tells me they will come out with a reprint as it has errors.

25notes

 

[plugsandsparks]

Have two copies of blue book (bought in error and one OSG) not even taken out of bag yet.. lol
SPDs been fitting them in commercial /industrial for a few years. Have just fitted a Type1,2,3 combo in a large house as it has sheds loads of automation and AV stuff. I may add an AFDD to this house as the sign off will be when 18th is running, even though it started before as i want it to the latest when i sign it off.

 

[Nigel]

AFDD’s are primarily aimed at the domestic market as this is where most people tend to sleep and that is what they are aiming these things at, so I think you will find most domestic installs will require one unless it is declined by the client.

SPD’s from what I am being told will be mandatory on all installations including domestic.. why would they be excluded?

Where are you getting this info from? The guidance is very clear on when AFDDs are recommended. None of which mention dwellings.

 

[Midwest]

Where are you getting this info from? The guidance is very clear on when AFDDs are recommended. None of which mention dwellings.

I haven't a copy of the 18th, so can't read the particular reg. I believe the reg pinpoints the places where these devices should be installed, for example, where there is sleeping accommodation. So how do you interpret that, hotels, B&B's or just plain simple domestic properties?

All the (pre realise) bumph I've read on this device, by the manufacturers have nice little flyers of their offerings, with pictures of families, domestic properties as well as tower blokes and other such buildings.

Indeed Wylex flyer says mentions domestic appliance fires. It also goes on to say 'The next edition of the wiring regulations (18th Edition) is expected to provide detailed guidance on requirements for, and use of, AFDDs in electrical installations from January 2019'.
https://www.wylexreasons.co.uk/Content/pdf/Wylex bitesized guide to AFDDs and Fire Protection.pdf

So I guess thats not the case in the usual vagueness, BS7671 seems to be making in recent amendments.

 

[Nigel]

I haven't a copy of the 18th, so can't read the particular reg. I believe the reg pinpoints the places where these devices should be installed, for example, where there is sleeping accommodation. So how do you interpret that, hotels, B&B's or just plain simple domestic properties?

All the (pre realise) bumph I've read on this device, by the manufacturers have nice little flyers of their offerings, with pictures of families, domestic properties as well as tower blokes and other such buildings.

Indeed Wylex flyer says mentions domestic appliance fires. It also goes on to say 'The next edition of the wiring regulations (18th Edition) is expected to provide detailed guidance on requirements for, and use of, AFDDs in electrical installations from January 2019'.
https://www.wylexreasons.co.uk/Content/pdf/Wylex bitesized guide to AFDDs and Fire Protection.pdf

So I guess thats not the case in the usual vagueness, BS7671 seems to be making in recent amendments.

This is only my opinion by BS7671 refers to normal houses like we live in as ‘dwellings’.

‘Sleeping accommodation’ I would consider places where multiple people sleep such as B&Bs, HMOs and hotels.

Manufacturers will do whatever to make a sale.

 

[Spoon]

421.1.7 Arc fault detection devices conforming to BS EN 62606 are recommended as a means of providing additional protection against fire caused by arc faults in AC final circuits.

If used, an AFDD shall be placed at the origin of the circuit to be protected.
NOTE: Examples of where such devices can be used include:
• premises with sleeping accommodation
• locations with a risk of fire due to the nature of processed or stored materials, i.e. BE2 locations (e.g. barns woodworking shops, stores of combustible materials)
• locations with combustible constructional materials, i.e. CA2 locations (e.g. wooden buildings)
• fire propagating structures, i.e. CB2 locations
• locations with endangering of irreplaceable goods.

The Oxford Dictionary says 'Accommodation' is "A room, group of rooms, or building in which someone may live or stay. ‘they were living in temporary accommodation’ "

IMO 'sleeping accommodation' would also include houses.

 

[Nigel]

421.1.7 Arc fault detection devices conforming to BS EN 62606 are recommended as a means of providing additional protection against fire caused by arc faults in AC final circuits.

If used, an AFDD shall be placed at the origin of the circuit to be protected.
NOTE: Examples of where such devices can be used include:
• premises with sleeping accommodation
• locations with a risk of fire due to the nature of processed or stored materials, i.e. BE2 locations (e.g. barns woodworking shops, stores of combustible materials)
• locations with combustible constructional materials, i.e. CA2 locations (e.g. wooden buildings)
• fire propagating structures, i.e. CB2 locations
• locations with endangering of irreplaceable goods.

The Oxford Dictionary says 'Accommodation' is "A room, group of rooms, or building in which someone may live or stay. ‘they were living in temporary accommodation’ "

IMO 'sleeping accommodation' would also include houses.

I would agree if the rest of BS7671 was written in plain English. However BS7671 refers to houses as ‘dwellings’. If they were to mean houses they would have put the word ‘dwelling’ in there, which they have not.

 

[Midwest]

I reckon JPEL/64 Committee thought this would a whimsical idea, and bigged up AFDD's to be installed across the board, bit like rods & PME debacle. Until they realised the practicalities of installing them in domestic properties, and the likelihood that no manufacture is going to have a readily available supply on the shelves, in any practical format in time for January next year.

So the 'detailed guidance on requirements for, and use of, AFDDs in electrical installations from January 2019', which was obviously mentioned at one of the coffee mornings, got left on the printing press floor. Lets just keep em guessing, and make up their own minds.

Why don't one you bods email your scheme, and see what they are thinking?

 

[Nigel]

421.1.7 Arc fault detection devices conforming to BS EN 62606 are recommended as a means of providing additional protection against fire caused by arc faults in AC final circuits.

If used, an AFDD shall be placed at the origin of the circuit to be protected.
NOTE: Examples of where such devices can be used include:
• premises with sleeping accommodation
• locations with a risk of fire due to the nature of processed or stored materials, i.e. BE2 locations (e.g. barns woodworking shops, stores of combustible materials)
• locations with combustible constructional materials, i.e. CA2 locations (e.g. wooden buildings)
• fire propagating structures, i.e. CB2 locations
• locations with endangering of irreplaceable goods.

The Oxford Dictionary says 'Accommodation' is "A room, group of rooms, or building in which someone may live or stay. ‘they were living in temporary accommodation’ "

IMO 'sleeping accommodation' would also include houses.

Also best to look up the term ‘sleeping accommodation’ as opposed to just ‘accommodation’. It is slightly different but changes things a lot.

 

[Midwest]

I would agree if the rest of BS7671 was written in plain English. However BS7671 refers to houses as ‘dwellings’. If they were to mean houses they would have put the word ‘dwelling’ in there, which they have not.

Well they didn't do a particular good bit of script with 421.1.201.

Incidentally essex, what happened to that smoothly fluffier side of you that appeared a few weeks back.

 

[Nigel]

Well they didn't do a particular good bit of script with 421.1.201.

Incidentally essex, what happened to that smoothly fluffier side of you that appeared a few weeks back.

I am very fluffy just like to get to the point.