Am I being a snob, or is this actually dangerous

[Inteificio]

On a distribution board last week in a farm house, I saw 2 core 4mm SWA with the sheath terminated by having a couple of strands in a terminal block.

A photo would save a thousand words, but I found out on that day that my camera phone is not waterproof =-(

The other sparky on site said it is fine if the Zs is in, which I accepted at the time.

Then I got thinking, the Zs will make sure the fuse trips, but how can you guarantee conductor safety while the fuse is tripping?
We had a similar issue in our factory where a spark proved that a distribution circuit would blow in 4s, within the limit. However I pointed out the wires would be melting the insulation after 1s.

I can do the calcs to prove how hot that conductor will get, but that is not sparky level maths and I know the guy who installed it won't be able to do that.

So my question is:

When is it ever safe to terminate only a couple of strands of the armouring on SWA when it is being used as the CPC.

This is quite important as I am going to be politely confronting the guy, and I don't want to risk causing offence if I am wrong. I will be the first to admit domestic is not my speciality.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

But placing out of reach is not acceptable for domestic and is only to be applied where an installation is controlled by a skilled or supervised person, 417 (BRB)

exactly my point in #51

 

[Inteificio]

OK am back =-)

Seems like I missed a long argument.

As ever, people skim on the internet and opinions get miss-understood.

So to clarify.

I do not classify this as safe and if was doing a PIR it would get a cat 1 fail from me. (if we got a PFC there is a small chance of a fire, not sure how small, so therefore it is cat 1).

The reason for the thread was to see if I overlooked anything and to find out if the sparky had any leg to stand on.
Seems pretty clear he does not!

As for deviating from 7671, I meant in general, not this specific example. I do not think this was safe (especially as someone pointed out the obvious I overlooked, there is no mechanical support, good chance that metal fatigue is going to reduce the eCSA over time).

This breaches the building regs, so is statutory, so he is fkd if I report him.



I now have the information I needed to reprimand this person, so that you all for your assistance.


Sorry to say, I will not be able to speak to him for a few weeks (let us hope no fire in the mean time). I will get photos and details as they become available.

 

[Inteificio]

Out of interest how is the cable terminated at the remote end?

No idea, think I will go and have a look.
He had not even labelled the boards when I had a look, so had no idea where anything went!

 

[1shortcircuit]

Thanks for coming back to us with an update. I would be most interested in seeing pictures of the faults that you find:thumbsup

 

[Des 56]

I can do the calcs to prove how hot that conductor will get, but that is not sparky level maths and I know the guy who installed it won't be able to do that.




If it is saying what I suspect, then that is presumptuous and a little annoying

Please clarify the above quote

 

[GLENNSPARK]

No idea, think I will go and have a look.
He had not even labelled the boards when I had a look, so had no idea where anything went!

so no identification of distribution or final circuits either...hmm....

 

[baldsparkies]

Not sure if I am missing something here. But the only way the wired armour should be used a a cpc is A) if its csa is compliant and B) its correctly terminated with banjo and gland pack. Seems simple enough to me ?? The PFC with regards to earth fault may become a safer bet if an RCD of 30 100 or even 500 ma has been fitted.
But although a hypothetical step in the right direction from a safety point of view.
The way that armour has been terminated is just plain wrong, and needs to be done properly. End of.

 

[Inteificio]

In his defence on that one he is not finished, just made things 'safe' over Christmas, so we could use the extension.
Most of the circuits had pencil scribbled on them, so he probably knows what they mean.

Just want to see this job finished, so I can go and fix it!

Part of me wishes I wasn't so busy, so I could have done this job. Then the other part of me realises I am sodding glad I am so busy =-)


For more funny stuff on this spark, when working with him for a day (I volunteered as my domestic experience is limited)

He once climbed up a live factory bus bar (got two rungs in before hearing the life saving "FREEZE" from across the factory, thankfully he listened).
He also asked me to explain how to calculate the current on a lighting transformer!

 

[Inteificio]

I am also not sure on what it is protected by. There is confusion on one of the two row boards. The main incomer feeds an RCD protecting the bottom row, but seems to be no RCD on the top.

I am under the impression that as on TT everything, without exception, needs to be RCD, I am really not sure on that though, so if someone can confirm that would be appreciated.

So this is either protected by a 30ma RCD or B MCB on TT.

 

[Inteificio]

Reiterating for the 3rd time, THAT CABLE IS GOING TO HAVE A GLAND FITTED. Either by him, or me, but it is getting one!!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

In his defence on that one he is not finished, just made things 'safe' over Christmas, so we could use the extension.
Most of the circuits had pencil scribbled on them, so he probably knows what they mean.

Just want to see this job finished, so I can go and fix it!

Part of me wishes I wasn't so busy, so I could have done this job. Then the other part of me realises I am sodding glad I am so busy =-)


For more funny stuff on this spark, when working with him for a day (I volunteered as my domestic experience is limited)

He once climbed up a live factory bus bar (got two rungs in before hearing the life saving "FREEZE" from across the factory, thankfully he listened).
He also asked me to explain how to calculate the current on a lighting transformer!

not finished????....sounds to me like he shouldn`t have even started..lolffs.....

 

[Des 56]

I can do the calcs to prove how hot that conductor will get, but that is not sparky level maths and I know the guy who installed it won't be able to do that.




If it is saying what I suspect, then that is presumptuous and a little annoying

Please clarify the above quote

If you please,a reply would be considerate of you

 

[gottahugenoggin]

For more funny stuff on this spark, when working with him for a day (I volunteered as my domestic experience is limited)

He once climbed up a live factory bus bar (got two rungs in before hearing the life saving "FREEZE" from across the factory, thankfully he listened).
He also asked me to explain how to calculate the current on a lighting transformer!

Just out of curiosity,how come he ended up on the job of wiring your parents house?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

411.5.2 BRB for tt systems......yes i know its the red book...but my green one hasn`t arrived...yet..lol...

 

[Inteificio]

If you please,a reply would be considerate of you

I am saying the mathematics required to precisely calculate the increase of temperature for those two strands is not covered under any electrical course that I am aware of.
do not take this as a slight on electricians, I just meant it is not covered in any of the electrical courses I have taken.
Does not mean that any individual sparky cannot work this out!

The only individual sparky I was referring to was the protagonist of our tale.
If he cannot calculate the current usage of a lighting transformer, it seems a safe assumption that he could not do this far more complicated process.

Was that what you were asking?