AM2 Lighting

[YoungBart]

Is it just me that is a bit disturbed that the op is doing his am2 and needs to ask how to wire a basic lighting circuit?
my am2 lighting was in steel conduit if I can mind that far back correctly

i wasn't so much asking HOW to wire the system, more if anyone knew how they specifically wanted the AM2 system wiring, Unfortunately I fell into the trap of looking on 'sparky facts' and been given an incorrect method, so that's why I posted the thread.

 

[Sintra]

Downlights are not a problem as the cable/wire that comes from the connector/joint is not the neutral circuit supply conductor. What is it then? As it is joined in the switch and is unbroken to the last fitting.

The same goes for lamp posts and suchlike where you can test at the cut-off at the post base as the flex is not part of the neutral circuit supply.

EDIT As for the rules and regulations, it's late here but if you really want references to it I will gladly get them for you in next day or so? (maybe that will make people believe I actually know what I am talking about??? lol) Can't wait to see this regulation

In bold

 

[Wolfie708]

@JASON and @SINTRA

I've already said I will supply the quotes etc, but for the last q of yours at least, look up 'fixed wiring' in relation to testing.

The aforementioned lighting system comes under fixed wiring only up to the point of the lighting control pack, as everything after that is a 'plug-in' system.

Much like a 'Klix' setup where you only have to test at the rose regardless of what is connected to it (legitimately connected of course and you Do have to do visual checks even then)

EDIT I was actually going to ask some questions in this place regarding test sheets, but so far, the only one who seems to have any real knowledge is @OUTSPOKEN, so I may give it a miss asking in general lol

 

[Guest55]

Utter Gonads.

You would never get away with Neutrals at switches on a commercial or industrial installation regardless of the cable you used.

If you wire in conduit then you use the 2 plate method unless there is a good reason not too, thus no neutral at switch.

If you wire in T&E or any other multi-cored cable then you use the 3 plate method, all neutrals at the ceiling rose/light and the only cables at the switch are a live feed and switch line.

The excuse that it is easier to wire T&E with the neutral loop method holds about as much water as a bottomless bucket, you have to take cables to the light/ceiling rose anyway from the switch, so this is a lame excuse. You should only have one cable at the switch unless it's a multi-gang switch.

It is laziness borne out of bad practice and nothing anyone says here will convince me differently, people are just finding poor excuses to justify what is bad workmanship and sloppy attitude by saying "We don't design and install for safety"...crock of puke.

wtf are you on about now ???
take your neutrals to a ceiling rose .............. in a commercial ?
lol , you'll find most commercials have grids or banks of flouresents , good luck trying to find a dropped neutral in a room with 30 lights lol.
al li've heard so far is blah blah bad practice blah blah not on my job etc etc.
like sintra said if your cant bring some non-compliance regs to the table your just talking a load of waffle that has absolutley no relevence to standard UK commercial wiring practices........
oh i get it now , the entire contracting industry must be in the wrong because 2 or 3 individuals on here "dont like it"
well im off now gents , good evening to you all.

 

[Sintra]

i wasn't so much asking HOW to wire the system, more if anyone knew how they specifically wanted the AM2 system wiring, Unfortunately I fell into the trap of looking on 'sparky facts' and been given an incorrect method, so that's why I posted the thread.

From the AM2 guide

"As a part of the new AM2 exam you will have to wire up a 2 way and intermediate lighting circuit
with one light. To do this you must memorise the wiring diagram from below and follow it on the
day of the exam.
You will use 1.5 mm2 twin and earth cable and “push in” terminals to connect the wires together
where needed.
Your first cable will go from the CU to the nearest switch where you will connect the brown (L) to
the common (C) terminal. Your next length of cable will run from here to the last switch with the
brown wire not in use and the blue (N) and green-yellow (E) connected together with the first
lengths blue (N) and green-yellow (E) inside the first switch using the “push in” connectors. Next is
a length of cable from the first to the intermediate switch connecting together the L1 of the first
switch with the L1 of the intermediate switch and the same for the L2 terminals. You will use the
brown wire for the L1 to L1 connection and the blue wire to the L2 to L2 connection. Very
important is to mark the blue wire with brown slewing because it will be a Line conductor! Repeat
this step from the intermediate switch to the last switch.
For the last part you will need a length of cable from the last switch to the light. On one end the
brown wire (L) will go to the common (C) terminal while the blue (N) and green-yellow (E) needs
to be connected with the other cables blue (N) and green-yellow (E) using “push in“ connectors.
The other end of the last cable connects to the appropriate connectors in the light.
Since the whole installation is located in front of you it will be very easy to work with the short
lengths of cables."

 

[Sintra]

@JASON and @SINTRA

I've already said I will supply the quotes etc, but for the last q of yours at least, look up 'fixed wiring' in relation to testing.

The aforementioned lighting system comes under fixed wiring only up to the point of the lighting control pack, as everything after that is a 'plug-in' system.

Much like a 'Klix' setup where you only have to test at the rose regardless of what is connected to it (legitimately connected of course and you Do have to do visual checks even then)

EDIT I was actually going to ask some questions in this place regarding test sheets, but so far, the only one who seems to have any real knowledge is @OUTSPOKEN, so I may give it a miss asking in general lol

Completly different you obviously haven't got a clue.

 

[Marvo]

Utter Gonads.

You would never get away with Neutrals at switches on a commercial or industrial installation regardless of the cable you used.

If you wire in conduit then you use the 2 plate method unless there is a good reason not too, thus no neutral at switch.

If you wire in T&E or any other multi-cored cable then you use the 3 plate method, all neutrals at the ceiling rose/light and the only cables at the switch are a live feed and switch line.

The excuse that it is easier to wire T&E with the neutral loop method holds about as much water as a bottomless bucket, you have to take cables to the light/ceiling rose anyway from the switch, so this is a lame excuse. You should only have one cable at the switch unless it's a multi-gang switch.

It is laziness borne out of bad practice and nothing anyone says here will convince me differently, people are just finding poor excuses to justify what is bad workmanship and sloppy attitude by saying "We don't design and install for safety"...crock of puke.

I get the impression it's something that has been drummed into sparks over decades, often with good reason at the time, as being the 'right way' and old habits die hard. I think it's good to question traditional methods and accepted convention and to consider the pros and cons of the not so fashionable methods. I still don't see any reasons that would prevent the lighting supply being looped in and out of switches rather than the light fittings and nobody has been able to present any regs that would prohibit it.
I suppose another question might be what code would you give it if you were doing an EICR and how would you justify that code?

 

[Wolfie708]

with the other cables blue (N) and green-yellow (E) using “push in“ connectors.
"

Maybe you will listen now, notice the words I have highlighted for you all to see.

This type of connector does NOT allow for more than one conductor each side, so rather hard to wire 2 neutrals in and one neutral out of a switch isn't it?

EDIT I am seriously beginning to think that a lot of you should have your tickets revoked (if you have them at all????????)

 

[Dcf]

Utter Gonads.

You would never get away with Neutrals at switches on a commercial or industrial installation regardless of the cable you used.

If you wire in conduit then you use the 2 plate method unless there is a good reason not too, thus no neutral at switch.

If you wire in T&E or any other multi-cored cable then you use the 3 plate method, all neutrals at the ceiling rose/light and the only cables at the switch are a live feed and switch line.

The excuse that it is easier to wire T&E with the neutral loop method holds about as much water as a bottomless bucket, you have to take cables to the light/ceiling rose anyway from the switch, so this is a lame excuse. You should only have one cable at the switch unless it's a multi-gang switch.

It is laziness borne out of bad practice and nothing anyone says here will convince me differently, people are just finding poor excuses to justify what is bad workmanship and sloppy attitude by saying "We don't design and install for safety"...crock of puke.

I'll go back to wiring lights from a joint box.dare say that will make you seethe as well

 

[Wolfie708]

I'll go back to wiring lights from a joint box.dare say that will make you seethe as well

Nobody really cares how you do it, but to say what you are doing is the correct way is just childish.

 

[Jay Sparks]

I get the impression it's something that has been drummed into sparks over decades, often with good reason at the time, as being the 'right way' and old habits die hard. I think it's good to question traditional methods and accepted convention and to consider the pros and cons of the not so fashionable methods. I still don't see any reasons that would prevent the lighting supply being looped in and out of switches rather than the light fittings and nobody has been able to present any regs that would prohibit it.
I suppose another question might be what code would you give it if you were doing an EICR and how would you justify that code?

No code....how can it be if not against any regs/codes??? I agree that it may not have been taught back in the day but things change....sometimes for the best.....sometimes for the worst......but some people dont like change and I am like that with regards to Sir Alex leaving my one true love!!!!(except my son, of course). Man Utd will never be the same again!!!

 

[Dcf]

From the AM2 guide

"As a part of the new AM2 exam you will have to wire up a 2 way and intermediate lighting circuit
with one light. To do this you must memorise the wiring diagram from below and follow it on the
day of the exam.
You will use 1.5 mm2 twin and earth cable and “push in” terminals to connect the wires together
where needed.
Your first cable will go from the CU to the nearest switch where you will connect the brown (L) to
the common (C) terminal. Your next length of cable will run from here to the last switch with the
brown wire not in use and the blue (N) and green-yellow (E) connected together with the first
lengths blue (N) and green-yellow (E) inside the first switch using the “push in” connectors. Next is
a length of cable from the first to the intermediate switch connecting together the L1 of the first
switch with the L1 of the intermediate switch and the same for the L2 terminals. You will use the
brown wire for the L1 to L1 connection and the blue wire to the L2 to L2 connection. Very
important is to mark the blue wire with brown slewing because it will be a Line conductor! Repeat
this step from the intermediate switch to the last switch.
For the last part you will need a length of cable from the last switch to the light. On one end the
brown wire (L) will go to the common (C) terminal while the blue (N) and green-yellow (E) needs
to be connected with the other cables blue (N) and green-yellow (E) using “push in“ connectors.
The other end of the last cable connects to the appropriate connectors in the light.
Since the whole installation is located in front of you it will be very easy to work with the short
lengths of cables."

About 9 pages too late Sintra!

 

[Sintra]

Maybe you will listen now, notice the words I have highlighted for you all to see.

This type of connector does NOT allow for more than one conductor each side, so rather hard to wire 2 neutrals in and one neutral out of a switch isn't it?

EDIT I am seriously beginning to think that a lot of you should have your tickets revoked (if you have them at all????????)

That was a quote for what is supplied,to carry out the new AM2 and has absolutely nothing to do with connecting neutrals at switches or how many conductors can fit into a connector. Have you never heard of wagos have a look and you will see you can connect multiple conductors into one connector.

 

[Knobhead]

From the AM2 guide

"As a part of the new AM2 exam you will have to wire up a 2 way and intermediate lighting circuit
with one light. To do this you must memorise the wiring diagram from below and follow it on the
day of the exam.
You will use 1.5 mm2 twin and earth cable and “push in” terminals to connect the wires together
where needed.
Your first cable will go from the CU to the nearest switch where you will connect the brown (L) to
the common (C) terminal. Your next length of cable will run from here to the last switch with the
brown wire not in use and the blue (N) and green-yellow (E) connected together with the first
lengths blue (N) and green-yellow (E) inside the first switch using the “push in” connectors. Next is
a length of cable from the first to the intermediate switch connecting together the L1 of the first
switch with the L1 of the intermediate switch and the same for the L2 terminals. You will use the
brown wire for the L1 to L1 connection and the blue wire to the L2 to L2 connection. Very
important is to mark the blue wire with brown slewing because it will be a Line conductor! Repeat
this step from the intermediate switch to the last switch.
For the last part you will need a length of cable from the last switch to the light. On one end the
brown wire (L) will go to the common (C) terminal while the blue (N) and green-yellow (E) needs
to be connected with the other cables blue (N) and green-yellow (E) using “push in“ connectors.
The other end of the last cable connects to the appropriate connectors in the light.
Since the whole installation is located in front of you it will be very easy to work with the short
lengths of cables."

Ye gods!

What happened to teaching people to think? There’s no point calling it an exam it’s a farce!

All I can say is someone has bought a job lot of T&E. Or would three core be outside the budget?

 

[Dcf]

Ye gods!

What happened to teaching people to think? There’s no point calling it an exam it’s a farce!

All I can say is someone has bought a job lot of T&E. Or would three core be outside the budget?

My sentiments exactly.
back to the op tho
young bart.get some cable and follow the instructions to the letter from sintras informative post.it tells you exactly what goes where.
im sure it will come clear when it's all in front of you.