Amendment 3 Non combustable

[valleybilly]

It seems a odd it's even being raised as a BS 7671 issue - surely the requirement for performance of an particular item of equipment should be dealt with by the equipment standard

what next all metal beko fridges etc

 

[Guest125]

I still don't get why this is included in this amd ????

Christ it is down to the manufacturers to ensure the products they sell are fit for purpose and meet all required regulations and product standards, we just buy them off the shelf and fit the sodding things

Inthink it is the poor workmanship that is the issue not the poor quality of the boards.

 

[nickblake]

So why dont they look at why consumer units catch fire , and excluding errors made by the installer , one of the major factors is the terminal screws they awful strip at the drop of a hat , get rid of torque settings, as cables im finding are still loose,even if you torque them, square D screw drivers only have the settings either side of the one they state , under tighten or over tighten, ask them which and they cant answer , poor quality components ,need not remind any one of the recalls ,make all terminals dual screw very rare did and old wylex catch fire which had dual screws , manufacturers need to stop cutting corners and make quality products because these days all they are producing is crap end of

 

[Des 56]

Inthink it is the poor workmanship that is the issue not the poor quality of the boards.

What has the degree of fire safety afforded by the construction material of any particular cons unit have to do with workmanship ?
Your statement has me completed and utterly baffled

Poor workmanship, caused mainly by low skill level, is a completely separate issue altogether.thats even if if poor workmaship is the cause of the consumer unit fires that have become numerous these last few years

 

[valleybilly]

The proposed regulation 421.1.201 has a 200 series number meaning that it is UK only - why ?

 

[Guest125]

What has the degree of fire safety afforded by the construction material of any particular cons unit have to do with workmanship ?
Your statement has me completed and utterly baffled

Poor workmanship, caused mainly by low skill level, is a completely separate issue altogether.thats even if if poor workmaship is the cause of the consumer unit fires that have become numerous these last few years

Because loose connections (ie - poor workmanship) cause fires.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Hello Des56 :smilewinkgrin:

 

[sparkdog]

I think modern consumer units are rubbish. The terminals and screws are mostly made of steel, how cheapo is that?

 

[edexlab]

Had a chat with my fireman brother recently retired and now works as a trainer for fire services and other establishments, and he says from statistics and his own experiences , the majority of electrical fires are and generally always have been caused by faulty appliances, old installations, fake/poor quality components, overloaded outlets , poor workmanship /loose connections and damage to electrical components accidental and vermin related in that order

His opinion. ..

He said it would make more sense to do something preventative to real causes of electrical fire such as educational campaigns perhaps even going as far as compulsory testing/inspection and possibly pat testing of domestic appliances for insurance purposes at reasonable timescales,

Of course this wouldn't necessarily solve the problem as many couldn't afford the costs involved, in testing and remedial works,

So he thinks this is an easy way for the IET and others to look proactive with the costs borne by others, thinking this won't affect the consumer too hard other than testing costs, which of course is rubbish, there will be a manufacturing cost passed down to joe bloggs for any new Cu's

Changing CU construction to metal will have little effect on fire statistics even long term as there are millions already installed anyway especially in Europe and statistically few fires caused so why introduce a rule like this, much better to make manufacturers use a self extinguishing plastic material which can be injection moulded and improve the terminal quality as it would be the most cost effective way forwards.

 

[Engineer54]

much better to make manufacturers use a self extinguishing plastic material which can be injection moulded

They do and have done for a number of years now!!!

 

[shanky887614]

What has the degree of fire safety afforded by the construction material of any particular cons unit have to do with workmanship ?
Your statement has me completed and utterly baffled

Poor workmanship, caused mainly by low skill level, is a completely separate issue altogether.thats even if if poor workmaship is the cause of the consumer unit fires that have become numerous these last few years

there treating the symptoms e.g. trying to make it safer if they catch fire rather than fix the problem which is a combination of poor quality boards and poor workmanship.

how many times have you come across boards that have been smoldering because people forgot to tighten breakers after testing?

i have come across is once and it happened on a few other boards on the premise, i put a tempory supply on for them, you have to keep the beer flowing

 

[shanky887614]

Had a chat with my fireman brother recently retired and now works as a trainer for fire services and other establishments, and he says from statistics and his own experiences , the majority of electrical fires are and generally always have been caused by faulty appliances, old installations, fake/poor quality components, overloaded outlets , poor workmanship /loose connections and damage to electrical components accidental and vermin related in that order

His opinion. ..

He said it would make more sense to do something preventative to real causes of electrical fire such as educational campaigns perhaps even going as far as compulsory testing/inspection and possibly pat testing of domestic appliances for insurance purposes at reasonable timescales,

Of course this wouldn't necessarily solve the problem as many couldn't afford the costs involved, in testing and remedial works,

So he thinks this is an easy way for the IET and others to look proactive with the costs borne by others, thinking this won't affect the consumer too hard other than testing costs, which of course is rubbish, there will be a manufacturing cost passed down to joe bloggs for any new Cu's

Changing CU construction to metal will have little effect on fire statistics even long term as there are millions already installed anyway especially in Europe and statistically few fires caused so why introduce a rule like this, much better to make manufacturers use a self extinguishing plastic material which can be injection moulded and improve the terminal quality as it would be the most cost effective way forwards.

your right, boards will still burn because the breakers will still be made of plastic.

 

[Knobhead]

Just so I'm up to date on this metal CU lark I've just place an order for a new board

 

[Engineer54]

your right, boards will still burn because the breakers will still be made of plastic.

They tend to melt rather than actually catch fire. Even if a flame does appear it'll be of a very short duration before it extinguishes itself. It may be a different situation if the fire is external to the CU/DB, but then that's not a problem any manufacturer of plastic CU/DBs can do anything about.

I don't know, but did any of those recalled faulty MCBs actually cause a house fire?? All the photo's i've seen to date of what i took to be the worst cases, was melted down plastic enclosures and MCB casings.... basically one or maybe two big blobs of plastic, one what used to be the CU and the other on the floor...

As stated most catastrophic CU/DB failures or faults are a direct consequence of insecure conductor terminations, or inappropriate circuit configurations rather than the manufacturer's enclosure material choice...

 

[Midwest]

Hence the need to contain any fire, however short inside the CU. How many installed CU's do you see on a wall on it's own, above a non combustible floor. Most are surrounded by books, coats etc, not to mention the floor below.

Still think it's gonna be interesting to see what the manufacturers come up with to comply with this reg. Cant see just using their existing metal clad CU's will.