Chasing cable in a ceiling

[Pat H]

Thats true. Better to have drilled a hole but you would then need to make much larger access holes in the plaster at least on one side of the joist.

 

[Leesparkykent]

@westward10 I tried quoting @Pat H posts #22/23 about notching joists from below but for some reason I'm getting an error when trying to quote.

 

[westward10]

@westward10 I tried quoting @Pat H posts #22/23 about notching joists from below but for some reason I'm getting an error when trying to quote.

Got you now.

 

[Gigsy]

The regs say 50mm below the surface, why do you think this only applies to walls only?

Thank you everyone, this one seems a bit of a grey area. Some qualified electricians think it complies with regs, and some think it does not. Here are a few of my thoughts.


Yes the plaster is thicker than the cable.

The cable is covered by plastic capping.

The 50mm below a floorboard and 50mm above a ceiling to avoid nails is not relevant as it does not go through a joist.

You can run cable un-protected by grounded metal conduit less than 50mm in a wall as long as it is protected by a RCD, so why can't you do the same in a ceiling?

I do not think my work contravenes any regulations.


Also please do not talk to me like I am thick, just cos I am not qualified as an electrician does not mean I cannot read BS7671, I have a copy of the manual and am more than capable of understanding it, I have come here to see if there is anything in the book I have missed. So far I am confident that all the regs that have been quoted in this thread have not been broken. It is quite astonishing how some of the replies in this thread quote regulations that simply do not apply to the situation, it appears to me that some of the electricians in this forum do not actually understand the meaning of the words they write.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hi @Gigsy , I don't want to come across as rude or condescending but you are deluded if you generally think that nearly every reg that's been mentioned in this thread hasn't been contravened by what you have done.

The reason cables can be buried in a wall at a depth of less than 50mm as long as it has additional protection my means of a 30mA RCD is because they are run in prescribed zones i.e 150mm from a corner of a wall, 150mm from the top edge where wall meets ceiling, Horizontal and vertical from an accessory.

 

[westward10]

I don't think it was anyone's intention to judge your interpretation of BS7671. I think the problem was the unconventional way as to which you installed the cable and finding whether it was compliant or not, which obviously led to opinions of your methods which I found quite amusing, no offence meant.

 

[Gigsy]

Hi @Gigsy , I don't want to come across as rude or condescending but you are deluded if you generally think that nearly every reg that's been mentioned in this thread hasn't been contravened by what you have done.

The reason cables can be buried in a wall at a depth of less than 50mm as long as it has additional protection my means of a 30mA RCD is because they are run in prescribed zones i.e 150mm from a corner of a wall, 150mm from the top edge where wall meets ceiling, Horizontal and vertical from an accessory.

Why are

Hi @Gigsy , I don't want to come across as rude or condescending but you are deluded if you generally think that nearly every reg that's been mentioned in this thread hasn't been contravened by what you have done.

The reason cables can be buried in a wall at a depth of less than 50mm as long as it has additional protection my means of a 30mA RCD is because they are run in prescribed zones i.e 150mm from a corner of a wall, 150mm from the top edge where wall meets ceiling, Horizontal and vertical from an accessory.

Explain how regulation 522.6.201 has been contravened, under a floor or above a ceiling, I did not install the cable under a floor or above a ceiling. This regulation is irrelevant

Explain how regulation 522.6.204 has been contravened. This regulation deals with cables running through holes in joists, I have not run cable through a hole in a joist,. This regulation is irrelevant.


Concerning the regulations regarding permitted area's in walls, these regulations do exactly what they say on the tin, they deal with permitted area's to run cables in regard to walls, I have not run my cable in a wall, I have run my cable in a ceiling.


Regarding the building regulations, all it says in part P of the building regulations is that electrical installations have to be safe and not cause fire or electric shock. BS7671 are not a legal requirement, just helpful guidelines you can follow to help you prevent installing an electrical system which could potentially cause a fire or electric shock.


Chasing a cable in a ceiling to an appliance and protecting it with a RCD, is not likely to cause a fire or cause anyone to receive an electric shock. Nobody puts anything on a ceiling apart from a light, the cable goes to the light.

 

[westward10]

Like I said it is unconventional.

 

[Gigsy]

Like I said it is unconventional.

Thank you, I think that explains the reaction

 

[telectrix]

where the cables pass under the joists, a steel protection plate could be fitted under the cables, fixed int the joists. to comply. personally, i'd not bother. tin hat on.

 

[Pat H]

Protected by an RCD covers most things. But don't think a ceiling is not vulnerable to nails.
What happens if the next owner decides to hand ceiling decorations and screws a cup hook into the plaster?

Regulations have to be followed but its also about protection from possible dangers. As I said an RCD covers of that anyway.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

You aren't supposed to notch the bottom of joists.

PLUMBERS !!!

 

[Darkwood]

Thank you everyone, this one seems a bit of a grey area. Some qualified electricians think it complies with regs, and some think it does not. Here are a few of my thoughts.


Yes the plaster is thicker than the cable.

The cable is covered by plastic capping.

The 50mm below a floorboard and 50mm above a ceiling to avoid nails is not relevant as it does not go through a joist.

You can run cable un-protected by grounded metal conduit less than 50mm in a wall as long as it is protected by a RCD, so why can't you do the same in a ceiling?

I do not think my work contravenes any regulations.


Also please do not talk to me like I am thick, just cos I am not qualified as an electrician does not mean I cannot read BS7671, I have a copy of the manual and am more than capable of understanding it, I have come here to see if there is anything in the book I have missed. So far I am confident that all the regs that have been quoted in this thread have not been broken. It is quite astonishing how some of the replies in this thread quote regulations that simply do not apply to the situation, it appears to me that some of the electricians in this forum do not actually understand the meaning of the words they write.

It wasn't a dig at you or your intelligence, you seem to have snapped back a little to harshly on my comment, I just ask a genuine query as to why you think the regulation only applies to certain planes in the building structure, where did I undermine your intellect or challange your intelligence?
The BS7671 is a very complex set of regulations and many are ambiguous so down to interpretation hence I asked why you had that line of thought.

Personally I cannot see why you wouldn't apply this regulation to all surfaces as this is how it is worded, you can get many fixtures and fitting that mount on a ceiling and screw down to a floor so why the abrasive reaction?

 

[HandySparks]

Nobody puts anything on a ceiling apart from a light...

Or drawing pins for decorations. Or a battery smoke alarm.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Or a PowerMyself Health and Fitness Supplement Store PowerMyself Ceiling Mounted Chin-Up Bar - English - https://www.powermyself.com/powermyself-ceiling-mounted-chin-up-bar.html