Chasing cable in a ceiling

[Pat H]

Of course it all falls back on common sense. If a cables RCD protected then its protected even if we hang it under a circular saw blade. The 7671 regs are then just prescribing cabling procedures to avoid damaging cables. Safety has been ensured by the RCD. So its more about avoiding the issues damaging the cable will cause. But that is now included in the regs and regs are regs.

 

[Gigsy]

That is not the case at all.
Cables concealed in walls at a depth less than 50mm must be:
a) run in prescribed routes and
b) provided with RCD protection.
Providing RCD protection without running the cable in a prescribed route is not acceptable.
As has already been explained, there are no prescribed routes on a ceiling.

Not acceptable in who's opinion? The logic I am using to come to the conclusion that my work is safe is the following. 99.9% of the general population are not even aware of BS7671, wiring regulations. 99.99% of people are not aware of the prescribed zones, to which you refer. Therefore if it is considered to be safe to run a cable in a wall less than 50mm under plaster when protected by a RCD, then it must be considered safe to do the same in a ceiling. The argument that someone could drive a fixing into the cable therefore it is unsafe is negated with the argument that the same can happen in a wall. The argument that it is safe in a wall because they are in prescribed zones is negated by the argument that 99.99% of people are not aware of the prescribed zones.

Most people never consider where the cables are when hanging pictures and christmas decorations etc, out of thoes who do most people think that cables have to run vertically and almost nobody knows of the 150mm from the ceiling and out from corners zones.

 

[Gigsy]

On second thoughts I will swallow my pride and change the cable run, I will drill holes in the joists from below. Thank you everyone for your advice. You have been most helpful.

 

[Gigsy]

Of course it all falls back on common sense. If a cables RCD protected then its protected even if we hang it under a circular saw blade. The 7671 regs are then just prescribing cabling procedures to avoid damaging cables. Safety has been ensured by the RCD. So its more about avoiding the issues damaging the cable will cause. But that is now included in the regs and regs are regs.

I wanted to know if what i had done was safe and legal. To comply with legislation, my cable run has to be installed in such a way as to not cause fire or electrocution. The law does not say anything about avoiding the issues damaging the cable will cause.

 

[Pat H]

You are correct and BS 7671 isn't a statutory document so you aren't legally required to comply with it.
However failure to comply with the BS 7671 recommendations can leave you liable to prosecution under other legislation that points to BS7671.
And I do believe that to meet building regs in acceptable way you have to comply with BS7671.

 

[Gigsy]

You are correct and BS 7671 isn't a statutory document so you aren't legally required to comply with it.
However failure to comply with the BS 7671 recommendations can leave you liable to prosecution under other legislation that points to BS7671.
And I do believe that to meet building regs in acceptable way you have to comply with BS7671.

Then you should read approved document part P. On the 1st page it clearly states there are other ways of complying with the law and that BS7671 regulations are guidelines.

Page 1, "What is an approved document

.......... Note that there may be other ways to comply with the requirements- there is no obligation to adopt any particular solution contained in an approved document"

There is no mention in the building regulations regarding BS7671 and although the approved document part P does refer to BS7671, because the approved document is only a guide, there is no legal reason you have to follow the wiring regulations.

 

[westward10]

Who is going to prosecute him the work isn't notifiable. Just another failing of the wishy washy Part P.

 

[Gigsy]

Who is going to prosecute him the work isn't notifiable. Just another failing of the wishy washy Part P.

When you say wishy washy Part P. Below is Part P

PART P ELECTRICAL SAFETY


Design and installation


P1. Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installation from fire or injury."


When i say IS Part P. I mean it IS part P in it's entirety. I think electricians think the apporved document and the wiring regulations are Part P. They are not. Of cousce you have to by law also comply with Part A and Part M, and all the other Parts of the building regs, but as far as Part P is concerned it literally is that one paragraph.

 

[Gigsy]

You are correct and BS 7671 isn't a statutory document so you aren't legally required to comply with it.
However failure to comply with the BS 7671 recommendations can leave you liable to prosecution under other legislation that points to BS7671.
And I do believe that to meet building regs in acceptable way you have to comply with BS7671.

What other legislation????????????????

 

[westward10]

When you say wishy washy Part P. Below is Part P

PART P ELECTRICAL SAFETY


Design and installation


P1. Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installation from fire or injury."


When i say IS Part P. I mean it IS part P in it's entirety. I think electricians think the apporved document and the wiring regulations are Part P. They are not. Of cousce you have to by law also comply with Part A and Part M, and all the other Parts of the building regs, but as far as Part P is concerned it literally is that one paragraph.

It's your house, none of the work was notifiable, in essence it doesn't matter. If Part P had some backbone you wouldn't be allowed to do it, but it ain't so you can.

 

[Gigsy]

It's your house, none of the work was notifiable, in essence it doesn't matter. If Part P had some backbone you wouldn't be allowed to do it, but it ain't so you can.

Thank you, I think I will change it anyways!!

 

[Pat H]

What other legislation????????????????

By law, the homeowner or landlord must be able to prove that all electrical installation work meets Part P, or they will be committing a criminal offence.

 

[westward10]

It is his own house.

 

[Pat H]

Ah so DIY in your own home is ok regardless of regs etc. Ok got that.

 

[westward10]

Ah so DIY in your own home is ok regardless of regs etc. Ok got that.

Well if the work doesn't require notification then yes.