clearing up a segregation issue?

[DT1991]

From BS5839
The circuits of fire alarm systems need to be segregated from the cables of other circuits to minimize any potential for other circuits to cause malfunction of the fire alarm system arising from:
— breakdown of cable insulation of other circuits and/or fire alarm circuits;
— a fire caused by a fault on another circuit;
— electromagnetic interference to any fire alarm circuit as a result of the proximity of another circuit;
— damage resulting from the need for other circuits to be installed in, or removed from, ducts or trunking containing a fire alarm circuit.
In order to facilitate identification of fire alarm circuits, cables should preferably be red in colour, unless another form of colour coding is appropriate. By this means, the possible need for appropriatesegregation can be identified, and there will be less likelihood of inadvertent manual interference with the circuits of fire alarm systems (e.g. during work on other electrical circuits).

Basically fire cables should not be next to any other cable/system.

This is not a fire alarm system cable.

 

[Simlec]

So what are you using the FP200 cable for??

 

[DT1991]

So what are you using the FP200 cable for??

It's in the specification of the job. I'm sure FP is not limited to Fire Alarm systems ONLY.

 

[Simlec]

So...
What are you using the FP200 cable for??
What is the spec saying?

 

[Simlec]

It's in the specification of the job. I'm sure FP is not limited to Fire Alarm systems ONLY.

Well that's what it was designed/made for (fire alarms/EM lighting) as MI was/is expensive and the main colors of red/white, but yes it could be used for other things.

 

[DT1991]

So...
What are you using the FP200 cable for??
What is the spec saying?

A supply to a fused spur. Spec is saying that all new cables have to be FP200. I couldn't agree more I asked same question, why FP200 and it's just the job spec. I don't own a company or make that stuff up I just work for a company. If I'm told that 'x' cable has to be 'x' type I've learned just to do it.

 

[Simlec]

So to answer your first question, the spur supplied by the FP cable you are putting in needs to be treated the same as any normal general power cable/circuit.
FP or Firetuf offers no more mechanical protection than say T+E and should be segregated from data & safety circuits in the same way T+E would for example.

This spur is not feeding a fire alarm panel is it?

 

[davesparks]

Now why do you say that FP it T&E have to be segregated from elv cables?
The regulations require that all cables within a wiring system are insulated to the max voltage present in that wiring system.
An insulated and sheathed cable is considered to be a wiring system in its own right, so to run a regular cat 5 cable next to a T&E is no problem, it is not in the same wiring system.

 

[Simlec]

I'm not sure what your saying Dave?
Shall we start at the basics say page 75 osg.

 

[davesparks]

I am saying that the regs require that all cables contained within a wiring system be insulated to the max voltage present.

T&E is a wiring system in its own right, therefore you can put it next to whatever you like without breaking the rules.

 

[tazz]

FP was not designed just for fire and em lighting...its basically a limited fire resistant cable, for any voltage up to 300v, with many applications in UPS and control. You will fine FP100 singles being used in most industrial trunking, along side standard LSF. FP unlike cat5 is quite capable of meeting the regs, with maximum insulation requirements, when run alongside 230v low voltage cables. From a design point of view, when fp is used as ultra low voltage, such as fire. It easier to install all ultra low system cables on the same basket tray.
Virtually every new build these days is one tray for Armoured, Trunking for 230v singles and basket tray for Ultra low voltage/data.

 

[Simlec]

"FP200 Gold is a 'standard' fire resistant cable as defined by fire alarm and emergency lighting British Standards and the original alternative to mineral insulated cable"

Taken from cable manufacture web site. I also remember all the marketing rubbish when FP/Firetuf was launched.

 

[tazz]

So replacement for Mic,......so mic is only manufactured for the fire industry as well.???..Fp is used as specified from 0 to 300v, and available in white.....as fire alarm are only 24v. I think your looking at promotional data, more than specifications....Fp used for VA/PA, ups, Mains control, RS585 data...the list is endless...all down to designer, where and when FP should be used.

 

[DT1991]

So are we saying that Firetuf been rated at above 230v but carrying data, can sit side by side with FP carrying 230v?

 

[UNG]

Well that's what it was designed/made for (fire alarms/EM lighting) as MI was/is expensive and the main colors of red/white, but yes it could be used for other things.

You really need to enlighten yourself can I suggest some reading Mineral-insulated copper-clad cable - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It was manufactured long before the fire alarms and emergency lighting we know today became the norm

With regard to main colours I have seen much more orange micc / pyro than any other colour, years ago if you ordered enough to meet the minimum manufacturing order you could have it in any colour you wanted rewired a church in stone coloured pyro many many years ago

"FP200 Gold is a 'standard' fire resistant cable as defined by fire alarm and emergency lighting British Standards and the original alternative to mineral insulated cable"

Taken from cable manufacture web site. I also remember all the marketing rubbish when FP/Firetuf was launched.

Ahh FP200 Gold the great pretender MICC will always be king just a pity it is so expensive now