Do you not feel that the term Electrical Trainee is derogatory

brman · Mar 27, 2014

MDJ said:
When we did our time we had to work under supervision even after qualifying for 2 years before getting our approved which meant we could work alone' so my view about a DSCE card for a year until 5 jobs have been inspected may not be so daft as it seems' why should 5week course people be aloud to work straight away without supervision when we had to do a 5 year apprenticeship and then 2 before being let loose on the public' it all about me me me and stop branding me a Electrical Trainee' there needs to be a minimum standard' 5 weeks won't cut it

I absolutely agree that 5 weeks on its own is laughable. You could spend 5 years in a classroom and it still would not cut it without hands on experience, no different to any other form of engineering.

So, if we agree that it is unlikely we will go back to the days of everyone doing apprentiships etc (was it really ever like that?) how do we ensure that the classroom is backed up with real experience and competence?
Is the schemes having a much more rigorous entry process (2 years portfolio etc) going to work?

MDJ · Mar 27, 2014

brman said:
I absolutely agree that 5 weeks on its own is laughable. You could spend 5 years in a classroom and it still would not cut it without hands on experience, no different to any other form of engineering.

So, if we agree that it is unlikely we will go back to the days of everyone doing apprentiships etc (was it really ever like that?) how do we ensure that the classroom is backed up with real experience and competence?
Is the schemes having a much more rigorous entry process (2 years portfolio etc) going to work?

Some very good points raised by yourself and Nick which is good reading and very good debating, to add my 2 pence worth into the highlighed bit of your post Brman, yes it was a bit like that. I am aware apprenticeships have changed and probably in some cases for the better, don't think I am in any way rubbishing todays apprentices, I am not, honestly, were talking about 5 week courses just to clarify. When I took my apprenticeship we did what was called Block release back then. We did 6 weeks at tech then 6 weeks at work on site, then 6 weeks at tech and 6 weeks again on site and so on and so on with the exception of a 8 or 9 week on site only period during the summer holidays. This went on for 3 and a half years and then most of the class went into a 4th for the C Certificate and some went to work. The guys who did the C did the next year on one day a week at college with a lot of homeworking and 4 days a week on site and those who didn't did another 12 months on site only. Then after 4 and a half years both sets of apprentices got their JIB diplomas and their Electricians Grade card. That was great for us all we were very proud and although Electricians we had to work under the supervision of an Approved Electrician or a site forman for 2 years before getting our Approved status. Back then it meant we could get drawings and specs from the company office and travel to site ourselves without any supervision running the Job and having Electricians train under us, they were called Approvers. Usually but not always Electricians were 23 years old before being let loose without supervision on the public. That is how it was, Now okay as I mentioned in my earlier post times have changed and the trade has been broken up. So I can understandtraining time will not be near 7 years like it was before working alone acceptable, 3-4 years now is the norm and understandable. The exams are probably as tough if not tougher than before perhaps and time on site over 3-4 years.

Taking all that into consideration the 5 weeks in a college without site experience is laughable indeed. My idea about a DSCE card should be issued and treated as an improver was in my day. Supervision on site to be again a priority. My idea of 5 completed Jobs for the 5 week course guy or gal before being allowed to work alone is not unrealistic at all IMO, and a compromise the MPs may have to consider. At this present time due to a lot of confusion from many people it seems a short course, the 17th and a pat testing course as well as a part p chat enough to be considered competant. Lets get real and try to get some valuble on site time under supervision back before the schemes are allowed to take 500 sobs in a brown envelope and allow the person to enter someones home.

Finally I admit as will anyone if they are sensible times have changed and we will never get back to the olden times and probably good in a way for some not all, and we are where we are and thats that. The question now is what do we all consider the minimum requirement should be for a pat on the back regarding competance? and Damien Skelton ran a poll a few weeks back with what this forum thought. Unfortunately I have not got the time to look for it, but getting that added into this thread may help the debate even more.

pepparz · Mar 27, 2014

NickD said:
Fair enough. But this does illustrate the problem with labels, especially ones which belittle people which some (not you) seem happy to bandy about.

Maybe we need a new CU label.

WARNING. This installation contains mixed engineering including black/red installed by a 30yr experienced sparky and blue/brown installed by a bin man who did a five week course. Proceed with extreme caution.

i cant see the problem with sarcastic derodatory terms if there deserved,it's probably healthy in the long run if its not taken to extremes. nowadays you get kids in school going up to teachers saying "miss miss that person over there's hurt my feelings, cos they called me a name, now i'm all upset" its time people grew some balls and if there getting ripped give it back!

Chrisuk · Mar 27, 2014