EF's referendum on the EU.

[Vegelen]

UK and EU: Carwyn Jones concern over referendum pledge
Carwyn Jones says the EU referendum pledge is an unwelcome distraction

Uncertainty over Wales' European Union membership will create years of instability, First Minister Carwyn Jones has warned
Mr Jones called it "an unwelcome distraction" that could affect inward investment and job opportunities.

The Welsh Labour leader said it would also destabilise the future of the UK.

Des 56, can you go a little steady on the EU FUD, it's causing me palputations and flatulence....

So to summarise: If we leave the EU, we will be able to reinvest 12.5 billion annually back into the UK economy, at our neighbours expense, gaining a net £6 billion per annum. *

*Really bad for our economic future?.

 

[Darkwood]

Des .. Wales has the fortunate position that mass open door immigration hasn't really affected it, its the fact it really hasn't been of any significance but then look around England 'all areas'!.. services are been hit, immigrants are been put ahead on the housing list after just arriving than people who have been waiting years... we are seeing our families and friends lose there jobs not because of the state of the Economy but because they will work for alot cheaper but they dont care as we are paying for their accomodation too and what happens to this money they earn ... it goes straight back out of the country and dosn't benefit us in any form...

Wages are been artificially driven down due to this yet living costs are rising here and i was even chatting to a Polish lad today who is a CNC operator, hes been given accommadation, he takes money for food and fuel and sends the rest home he says what he earns here is unbelievable compared to his country and he will do this untill the system changes. Now in his shoes id do the same so dont have issue with him but the EU meddling that allows him to walk in this country take a job that wasn't vacant before he arrived take a house in a shortage as well as claim benefits and not invest a penny of his earnings goes back into the UK. This is just one example of a common issue creating lots of anger.

When you see this on your doorstep effecting directly your family and friends then ill see if you hold your opinions. (which i respect)

I know this alone isnt a reason to exit the EU but this is what is effecting your average joe blogs and what is is seeing day in and out we live in a democratic society and the average joe blogs holds the majority of the vote so do the maths if we dont get control over issues like immigration or the fact we cant omit a terrorist from our country without costing us milions and years of persuing then EXIT is what everyone will vote... they dont view the world economic influence and our portion of that pie.

 

[Vegelen]

Des .. Wales has the fortunate position that mass open door immigration hasn't really affected it,

English Immigration?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ijjnx9nGHo

 

[Dcf]

Did diamond Dave not promise a euro referendum already or did I just dream it?
the real deal that will bring his downfall will be the south east/ rest of the country inequality. North of Watford there is very few public building/ infrastructure projects on the go which would get things going .the condems are way too tied in with the financial sector as well which we all know now is a huge con trick run by a gentlemens club to preserve the status of the chose few.the general public are a lot more informed than they used to be.just the politicos lies get slicker .

 

[shagbite]

i seem to recall him saying something about it before they got in to power. funny that - politicians breaking promises, who'd a thunk it?


darkwood's right - cameron's speech was too coded. i think he offered the in/out vote because of two reasons:

1) it goes someway towards nullifying the threat posed by ukip.

2) he knows there's a better than average chance that the tories won't win the next election, so it doesn't really matter if he promises us a vote.

 

[shagbite]

scotland: i'd be genuinely saddened if scotland decided to break from the uk. i consider myself an englishman and a briton - in equal measures. i have no problem signing questionnaires that don't have the option of 'english' as my nationality. in fact, i would always choose british over english. i feel a great affinity towards the people of northern ireland, scotland and wales, even though i don't have any relations from these places (in fact, my heritage is english/italian).

i can't say i have the same feelings for europeans (except my relations of course). i have no desire to be a part of europe, even if it means losing a few trading partners. the world is far bigger than europe and there are plenty of countries who'd gladly buy and sell with us - without telling us to give our prisoners the vote. personally, i'd start with the old commonwealth countries that the EU forbade us from dealing with. what a kick in the teeth for our old pals that was. europe barely amounts to 20% of the world's gdp - and the forecasts are predicting this figure to drop over the coming decades.

personally, i like the germans, the dutch, the swedes et al. but i don't want to be one. the bigwigs in brussels have a national anthem for europe, they have their own flag and they want a european army. no thanks. .........LOVE the uk / LIKE europe/europeans / HATE the eu.

no one can say we get a fair deal out of brussels. they've been bleeding us dry for years. of course there are plenty of countries wanting to join the EU. why wouldn't there be? it's a big bloody cash cow to them. we're paying for roads being built in slovenia whilst my motor needs new shock absorbers because of all the potholes in our roads.

i don't care if i am being selfish or sound like a little englander - our country should be run from whitehall, not belgium.

i love the pound & i love the pint. i love driving on the left - in a right hand drive motor - doing 30mph, not 45kph or whatever it is. don't kid yourselves that the EU are happy for us to keep these traditions. if we stay in the EU it won't be long before they're on the chopping block. and with our pathetic politicians we've got no chance of defending them. although, we seem to be laying down and accepting the demise of our culture anyway - even the weather forecast's in centigrade now. water freezes at 32 degrees and boils at 212 degrees - always did and always will.

oh yeah, and when i order a quarter of midget gems, i want 4oz, not 250 bloody grammes!!

 

[Fin170]

Metric system has nought to do with Europe

Plus you would have to find new random farm implements for electrical units, I propose chicken kicks as a replacement of amps

 

[shagbite]

Metric system has nought to do with Europe

Plus you would have to find new random farm implements for electrical units, I propose chicken kicks as a replacement of amps

try telling that to napoleon!!

 

[Engineer54]

Your all too dammed late, if you pull out now you'll be dead ducks in the water. Your whole economy is based around the European market. The whole EU set-up needs changing and your not going to be able to do that from the outside looking in!!

Cameron's a ----- for bringing this referendum up, you could well lose many of job's you already have and certainly the potential job's you could of had by the larger companies looking towards the European markets...

 

[Darkwood]

And our freedom to trade with the rest of the world isnt going to generate jobs then E54 as been part of the EU has massive trading sanction imposed on us.. i agree it will be bad to happen overnight but any change has consequences and with all due respect the recent concequences of been part of the EU are starting to outway the short term consequences of leaving it and for the EU where we buy 40+ billion imports more than we export can you honestly see them saying 'no we dont want to trade with you now'.... not even considering where we could invest over 50 million a day into our economy we would save this alone could supplement trade deal loses and much more.

Casualties happen with any big change but in the current set up the EU cant survive as has been predicted from numerous leading financial bodies within and outside the EU if it dosn't get a reality check they estimate no more than 3-5yrs max efore the euro collapses and then where would we be OH yes handcuffed to the them dragging our own currency down.

 

[Des 56]

I believe that the UK would be mad to jump ship and leave the EU,I have made that opinion very clear I hope

The consequences of leaving will be very severe
Those consequences may have already started to impact on our future

Put yourself in the position of a Japanese large corporation who are looking for investment opportunity,in order to access the 200 million or so European market
They may have been looking favourably at the UK for the siteing of their proposed production, bringing with that investment many jobs and a stimulus to the economy
Since this silly referendum pledge,they will now be faced with the prospect that the production facilities they intended to open here could become external to the very market they were set up to service, and that it could happen in a very short space of time

The board meeting that was take place to rubber samp that investment, will now re assess whether the decision to open production in the UK would be wise,so rather than face the possibility that their future factories become duds,that investment would now make better business sense to be relocated elsewhere in the EU,a place where they embrace their membership fully,where doubts about the future of a foreign companys investments are not apparent

Multiply this scenario by myriads of other investors from around the world and the conservatives will have shot this country in the foot so spectacularly and all for the sake of nationalism

 

[Darkwood]

This is where the arguments on both trains of thought become speculation, yes uncertainty isnt good for business in any country a point i can agree with but there is also the argument the the red tape that comes from brussels is also keeping many businesses from investing in britain and that is factual not speculation as many contracts and business ventures has been lost time and time again due to the ever changing EU laws manipulating major contracts and investent away from britain into mainland europe..... It can be said that the ever changing and tightening of business reg's is also keeping business at bay from investing.

You bring up a Japan example but it was only last month that China made massive business investments into the UK and made a public statement to the effect that they are not concerned if we leave or stay in europe what they see is a country WITH options i.e. if the Euro fails we wont be directly effected and can ride the wave it creates and if the whole EU machine starts to collapse we can also cut our ties and avoid been dragged under, we are in a very strategic position at the moment which we will lose if we keep accepting more and more EU laws (Exactly what Brussels wants), Brussels needs us in a dependance position where we have the EU noose around our necks but that hasn't really worked for Greece, Spain, Italy to name a few these are countries that are trapped falling apart and even when you as a nation like Greece vote in someone who is Anti-EU he is quickly removed Eh!! sorry i mean steps down.

We can speculate pessimistic or optimistic views till the cows come home but im trying to show the argument about failed investment and massive contracts that have left this country as a direct consequence of EU legislation on business which isnt speculation but if evident and happening already... the garden isn't as rosey for business been part of the EU as most are led to believe.


Let me speculate ..imagine a company wanting to expand or trade with other shores outside EU as it stands at the moment they may find a wall of red tape limiting or making this difficult, or the big contracts that were destined to stay with the work forces of our lands but for business defying reasons were lost to france and germany ... any enquiries are quashed, any questions are blanked and yet we are just supposed to sit back ..If brussels dosn't get what it wants it somehow managers to find a way to make it happen well with the exception of the UK been a full member.

 

[Octopus]

The EU countries in the Euro Zone will have to agree a "tighter" pact for fiscal needs, and this can't include those not in the Euro. This means the "other" 12 countries should also be allowed the opportunity to review their ties with Europe.

With the Euro in place there has to be a "2 zone" EU else the shambles will continue for potentially decades and this will not help anyone

 

[grantr37]

Des .. Wales has the fortunate position that mass open door immigration hasn't really affected it, its the fact it really hasn't been of any significance but then look around England 'all areas'!.. services are been hit, immigrants are been put ahead on the housing list after just arriving than people who have been waiting years... we are seeing our families and friends lose there jobs not because of the state of the Economy but because they will work for alot cheaper but they dont care as we are paying for their accomodation too and what happens to this money they earn ... it goes straight back out of the country and dosn't benefit us in any form...

Wages are been artificially driven down due to this yet living costs are rising here and i was even chatting to a Polish lad today who is a CNC operator, hes been given accommadation, he takes money for food and fuel and sends the rest home he says what he earns here is unbelievable compared to his country and he will do this untill the system changes. Now in his shoes id do the same so dont have issue with him but the EU meddling that allows him to walk in this country take a job that wasn't vacant before he arrived take a house in a shortage as well as claim benefits and not invest a penny of his earnings goes back into the UK. This is just one example of a common issue creating lots of anger.

When you see this on your doorstep effecting directly your family and friends then ill see if you hold your opinions. (which i respect)

I know this alone isnt a reason to exit the EU but this is what is effecting your average joe blogs and what is is seeing day in and out we live in a democratic society and the average joe blogs holds the majority of the vote so do the maths if we dont get control over issues like immigration or the fact we cant omit a terrorist from our country without costing us milions and years of persuing then EXIT is what everyone will vote... they dont view the world economic influence and our portion of that pie.

The only reason foreign workers are not flooding into wales in big numbers, only in small numbers compared to the rest of the UK, is that they speak welsh there, and in many parts they refuse to speak any english, it is almost banned, the foreigners all speak very good english for the most part, and the few that don't soon get help to learn it from their fellow countrymen or translated for them....so they head for the UK, America and Australia/New Zealand as they use a language which they mostly already have a good grasp of...
In wales, you can walk into a shop, pub or Hotel and they will just ignore you and refuse to serve you if you speak english....and people wanting to work there.....forget about it....not 100% of the country, but most of it....

That is why wales stays pretty well closed off, if you aint welsh then in places you are made very unwelcome...

 

[grantr37]

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