EICR test failed due to no RCD on smoke detector, lighting, door bell, security alarm

[James]

Was this electrician recommended by your letting agent?
I wonder what they would think about this…. Or are they blind to it.

Blind to it? More Likely inn on it.

 

[missp82]

Was this electrician recommended by your letting agent?
I wonder what they would think about this…. Or are they blind to it.

The second electrician was recommended by my letting agent. The letting agent sent him the report and the photos and his response was that the unit needs to change and the regulations change every 1-2 years and I have to comply. And when I asked if I will need to be changing the unit every year to comply with regulations he said no because the EICR we will issue is for 5 years for you are safe in that period. And he also gave me a quote to change the unit...

 

[missp82]

Blind to it? More Likely inn on it.

The letting agent doesn't even respond to my emails, I don't think he is interested in my concerns

 

[Tom256]

New letting agent then, only way they will learn.

I can see you have received lots of good information on the schedule.
The schedule is showing the device to be '61009' [as others have stated]. The 61009 form of circuit breaker as claimed to be in your board on the schedule is a device that provides RCD protection - Note: the individual devices are not 61009's.

That they have then made observations and adding to the scam have then coded C2 no RCD protection is wonderfully stupid. That a door bell with no RCD would make for a potentially dangerous installation is the level we are at here.
Sadly it is the sorry state of the industry and sadly lots of people are being taken advantage of.
Stated by way of empowering you with knowledge going forward.

Be good to hear how you get on. If you need any further information please ask

 

[Tom256]

I know, totally unprofessional. Are the issues in relation to his report or do you think there are issues with my installation that he didn't pick up?

I will refer back to my previous posts yet to quickly answer.
You are in a position where you do not have an EICR. What they sent to you is a shambles, nothing more than looking for remedial work.

There may or may not be items requiring attention it is not possible to say.
I would note a couple of C3's from what has been said here. C3 is a coding that makes the report reader aware - Improvement recommended - it does not make the installation unsatisfactory for continued use. Some compare such to an advisory on an MOT does not make for a failed MOT.

Reason for C3: An inspection is carried out against the latest edition of the wiring regulations. The inspector needs to apply engineering judgment during the inspection asking if such an observed deviation from the current regulations, yet installed to previous editions, is dangerous.

 

[missp82]

Contact NAPIT and explain how long they took and send them a copy of the details as you have posted here.

I am not sure how the forum works for finding Electricians perhaps one of the senior members can explain (?)

To give you another simple example how the Regulations are not retrospective. Approx 19 years ago (during the reign of the 16th edition of the wiring regulations, hope I have that correct as memory is sh*te at night) the colours of the conductors within the cables changed. They went from Red and Black (in the 15th and first edition pre ammendment of 16th edition) to Brown and Blue.
As such there are untold numbers of Installations with the 'older' colours still to this day.
Some have a mix of Red & Black colours alonside Brown & Blue colours in the same installation - advice is add a sticker to let some folk know. Anyway all these installation - domestic, commercial, industrial - do not need to be rewired and are perfectly fine. No EICR's are picking such up as a C2.
They won't push on that one because, I guess, a bit more at stake with competent electrical duty holders in industrial sites. Easier risking the old "ooohhh that needs a metal consumer unit, can't have plastic. Look it says so here"

I received NAPIT's response, it seems to me that they don't even want to look at the report, they want me who doesn't understand much to go and investigate it further. See below:

With regard to the members Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) and what has been reported on it, we’d be unable to comment. As you can appreciate we do not have any involvement with the inspection carried out on the day evidencing why the comments/readings made, were made. If you dispute the recordings on the certificate issued, you should report this to the members professional indemnity insurance. You can request these details for the company directly.

For technical advice regarding the EICR issued, you should query with Electrical Safety First Electrical Safety First - The UK's Electrical Safety Experts

They provide technical advice for members of the public and will be able to confirm the regulations cited.

If in the event it is evidenced that the information recorded is incorrect and the way in which the member has inspected and tested the property is incorrect or against regulations, we can take the complaint as feedback and internal investigate against the members ongoing certification as necessary.

This is the Complaints Policy that advises you where we can and cannot assist https://www.napit.org.uk/home-owner/NGL-POL-0010-NAPIT-Complaints-Policy-v1.6-05.21.pdf

This is the Complaint Form for you to complete and return to us member complaint form - https://www.napit.org.uk/home-owner/complaint.aspx

Any supporting evidence can be sent to [email protected]

 

[westward10]

That is an absolute joke but I'm afraid to say it is the cancer slowly eating away at the electrical industry. The joke of it all is that NAPIT stands for the National Association of Professional Inspectors and Testers whose original ethos was to get a system in place for professional testing people that soon fizzled out.

 

[Tom256]

It really is not good and NAPIT, in my opinion, with such an approach are not doing themselves any favours. I certainly am aware of Electricians turning away from NAPIT in favour of NICEIC.

Out of interest have you checked if this company is an actual member of NAPIT (for what it is worth) and not just claiming to be so?
There is an online checking system that can be used.

Worth an Email to Electrical Safety First. Refer them, refer NAPIT if need be, to this thread if it helps.

Cheap EICR to get the foot in the door then make the money on finding 'remedials'. That such is going on within the industry is no secret.

 

[missp82]

That is an absolute joke but I'm afraid to say it is the cancer slowly eating away at the electrical industry. The joke of it all is that NAPIT stands for the National Association of Professional Inspectors and Testers whose original ethos was to get a system in place for professional testing people that soon fizzled out.

how is the trade regulated this way? I can't believe they don't even want to look at the report and they want me to actually go around and get evidence to prove to them that this is wrong. There is a significant conflict of interest here when the same people who do the checks stand to gain financially from raising issues and people with low morals are bound to take advantage. I belong to a professional institute myself, we have a code of ethics where self interest threats need to be reported

 

[littlespark]

Unfortunately, this is exactly why these competent person schemes are referred to as “scams” on here sometimes.

No help whatsoever.

 

[missp82]

n my opinion, with such an approach are not doing themselves any favours. I certainly am aware of Electricians turning away from NAPIT in favour of NICEIC.

It really is not good and NAPIT, in my opinion, with such an approach are not doing themselves any favours. I certainly am aware of Electricians turning away from NAPIT in favour of NICEIC.

Out of interest have you checked if this company is an actual member of NAPIT (for what it is worth) and not just claiming to be so?
There is an online checking system that can be used.

Worth an Email to Electrical Safety First. Refer them, refer NAPIT if need be, to this thread if it helps.

Cheap EICR to get the foot in the door then make the money on finding 'remedials'. That such is going on within the industry is no secret.

I checked on NAPIT's website, they are a member. I will try Electrical Safety First as well.

 

[Tom256]

There is a significant conflict of interest here when the same people who do the checks stand to gain financially from raising issues and people with low morals are bound to take advantage.

Agreed. The inspection should be without a view to finding remedials. The moment I see terminology in any inspection report that states to the effect of 'needs new this or that' I know the report needs investigating. That is not how reports are compiled,

I have been doing this a little while and it hurts to the core to see this going on. I am pleased you had the good sense and tenacity to follow up and check.

As a side I knew one place where the electricians embedded doing the inspections were also to do the remedials. The lazy b*strads told me when I started there "if you find anything you will have to put it right" hint hint. They found nothing worthy of coding so had no work to do on remedials. Sit around - drink tea - nip off home for a few hours.
I handed in my notice that same day.

 

[westward10]

how is the trade regulated this way? I can't believe they don't even want to look at the report and they want me to actually go around and get evidence to prove to them that this is wrong. There is a significant conflict of interest here when the same people who do the checks stand to gain financially from raising issues and people with low morals are bound to take advantage. I belong to a professional institute myself, we have a code of ethics where self interest threats need to be reported

I started in the trade back in the early 80s and then you only had the NICEIC and ECA and they both held high standards but now since the advent of Part P is has become a rat race with the NICEIC actively involved in devaluing itself and the trade to a point where there is little hope of turning it back.

 

[missp82]

Agreed. The inspection should be without a view to finding remedials. The moment I see terminology in any inspection report that states to the effect of 'needs new this or that' I know the report needs investigating. That is not how reports are compiled,

I have been doing this a little while and it hurts to the core to see this going on. I am pleased you had the good sense and tenacity to follow up and check.

As a side I knew one place where the electricians embedded doing the inspections were also to do the remedials. The lazy b*strads told me when I started there "if you find anything you will have to put it right" hint hint. They found nothing worthy of coding so had no work to do on remedials. Sit around - drink tea - nip off home for a few hours.
I handed in my notice that same day.

Unbelievable. I will try Electrical Safety First too and keep you posted. I think the industry itself needs to start raising these points to their associations and the government potentially, it is more difficult for outside people that don't have sufficient knowledge. When it's all about the money, you lose credibility

 

[Johannes]

That is an absolute shambles. For what it's worth I wouldn't say asking if the flat is likely to be rented out, etc is a totally irrelevant question. Agree with the others, based off the information we have - nothing more than a couple of C3s by the look if it.

Any chance you could upload the test results page, assuming there even is one?

10 minute EICR. I think that if there are any test results they were tabulated before the 'tester' entered the property. And of course Part P was supposed to take the cowboys out of the market. Point 3, 7 and 8 on the observations sheet are clearly incorrect just from the pictures. Shocking!!!