EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

The decision to stay or leave is a complex conundrum, and even the most renowned economists, notorious politicians and respected grandees can't agree. Truth is nobody knows what will happen if we leave or if we stay. And I don't care which camp your in, whatever we decided, it ill be a leap into the dark.

When we last voted for this 41 years ago, there was a turnout of 65%, if you gauge that against a turnout of 78% in the Feb 74 GE, when Labour promised a referendum on the matter. Since then, the turnout for each GE has slowly been dropping with just a little more interest in recent elections.

So lets hope, we all turn out in greater numbers on the 23rd June.

Me and the missus have gone for a postal vote, 'cos we will be in our Anderson Shelter at the bottom of the garden, waiting for Armageddon. :smug:

I agree in that both directions are somewhat a leap in the dark but the the OUT campaign has one advantage albiet they are making a poor job of using it and are been dragged into the same fear campaign that the IN are clearly using, the OUT has the advantage in that we have 40yrs of evidence of the positives and negatives of been in the EU where all the IN campaign lack any real facts of 'what if we leave' so choose to play the doom card which has no real evidential value which now is getting very silly - yep that's it Europe will resort to war amongst itself if we left totally forgetting the fact we as is America are part of NATO which is really the ruling force when it comes to these matters and guess what.. you don't need to be in the EU to be in NATO - damn that's ruined the next instalment of the Terminator series :/.

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I agree in that both directions are somewhat a leap in the dark but the the OUT campaign has one advantage albiet they are making a poor job of using it and are been dragged into the same fear campaign that the IN are clearly using, the OUT has the advantage in that we have 40yrs of evidence of the positives and negatives of been in the EU where all the IN campaign lack any real facts of 'what if we leave' so choose to play the doom card which has no real evidential value which now is getting very silly - yep that's it Europe will resort to war amongst itself if we left totally forgetting the fact we as is America are part of NATO which is really the ruling force when it comes to these matters and guess what.. you don't need to be in the EU to be in NATO - damn that's ruined the next instalment of the Terminator series :/.

I suppose you could turn that argument around by saying, because we have been IN for the last 43 years the OUT campaign has no idea of knowing of what it's going to be like.

The war thing is a bit of a ruse thing, may have prevented conflicts in the past, economic union, but not in todays world. Although, Turkey wants to do it upmost to join.

Off to the supermarket, to stock up on tinned food.

 

[UNG]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

My point is just. ....it's not so simple and easy. People should make an informed choice on all the facts. In the 60's or 70's, I am not sure, the UK had to apply 3 times to join the European Economic Area. They were denied twice. They were surely not doing very well on their own, otherwise they would not have applied for membership .....

Yes there were some dark days in the 70's with a bleak outlook on offer was a trading club that would be free of import / export tariffs and restrictions the reality is there are restrictions because of EU directives and the requirements of individual states in there implementation

Not a bad day ....but I am getting annoyed with certain people taking us all for monkeys and not giving the facts. This is quite an important decision and will affect the UK for decades to come. What if your kids want to move to Spain and they can't in 20 years time ? I myself can't see a future for a normal wage earning person in the UK. Everything is just to expensive. I will have to move somewhere cheaper, preferably in Europe.

So who are these "certain" people as neither side is giving us any tangible facts apparently were doomed if we stay and doomed if we don't.
Does anybody even know the full facts of Cameron's unratified "reform" deal that from what I can see doesn't actually reform any part of the EU for the long term
If you look at the USSR as was is this the future of the EU and an ultimately it's demise
Leaving the EU will not prevent anyone moving to wherever they want to go to, it didn't before the EU and there is no reason why it should if we leave

I think you are getting annoyed for all the wrong reasons there is plenty of info out there if you choose to look for it and if you think people are going to blindly vote to leave then you need to rethink what you are saying as I know many well informed people who are ready to vote leave

 

[telectrix]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

the EU is the biggest con since Hitler conned Chamberlain in 1938. no, even bigger. at least Hitler didn't promise so much but gave back nothing.

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Are we actually legitimately in the EU or was we cheated into joining, here is how we actually ended up in the EU and who IMHO commited an act of treason and breach the very rights of the electorate by signing us up. Here's a snippet about what happened when we apparently joined the EU.

Many constitutional experts believe that Britain isn’t actually a member of the European Union since our apparent entry was in violation of British law and was, therefore invalid.
In enacting the European Communities Bill through an ordinary vote in the House of Commons, Ted Heath’s Government breached the constitutional convention which requires a prior consultation of the people (either by a general election or a referendum) on any measure involving constitutional change. The general election or referendum must take place before any related parliamentary debate. (Britain has no straightforward written constitution. But, the signing of the Common Market entrance documents was, without a doubt, a breach of the spirit of our constitution.)

Just weeks before the 1970 general election which made him Prime Minister, Edward Heath declared that it would be wrong if any Government contemplating membership of the European Community were to take this step without `the full hearted consent of Parliament and people’.
However, when it came to it Heath didn’t have a referendum because opinion polls at the time (1972) showed that the British people were hugely opposed (by a margin of two to one) against joining the Common Market. Instead, Heath merely signed the documents that took us into what became the European Union on the basis that Parliament alone had passed the European Communities Bill of 1972.

 

[telectrix]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

is heath still alive? can he be shot for treason? bugger, he's dead. let's shoot blair instead.

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Are we actually legitimately in the EU or was we cheated into joining, here is how we actually ended up in the EU and who IMHO commited an act of treason and breach the very rights of the electorate by signing us up. Here's a snippet about what happened when we apparently joined the EU.

Many constitutional experts believe that Britain isn’t actually a member of the European Union since our apparent entry was in violation of British law and was, therefore invalid.
In enacting the European Communities Bill through an ordinary vote in the House of Commons, Ted Heath’s Government breached the constitutional convention which requires a prior consultation of the people (either by a general election or a referendum) on any measure involving constitutional change. The general election or referendum must take place before any related parliamentary debate. (Britain has no straightforward written constitution. But, the signing of the Common Market entrance documents was, without a doubt, a breach of the spirit of our constitution.)

Just weeks before the 1970 general election which made him Prime Minister, Edward Heath declared that it would be wrong if any Government contemplating membership of the European Community were to take this step without `the full hearted consent of Parliament and people’.
However, when it came to it Heath didn’t have a referendum because opinion polls at the time (1972) showed that the British people were hugely opposed (by a margin of two to one) against joining the Common Market. Instead, Heath merely signed the documents that took us into what became the European Union on the basis that Parliament alone had passed the European Communities Bill of 1972.

You should have provide a citation for that quote, and not one you get a medal for

Pete's done thread on 1962, well I sure have some memories for 1972!

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

You should have provide a citation for that quote, and not one you get a medal for

Pete's done thread on 1962, well I sure have some memories for 1972!

Here's the source, it a piece by Vernon Coleman, a renowned Author, Journalist etc who's one of many interests is politics.. the full piece makes for very interesting reading and hints at bribary as a key factor but in a speculative sense but it created a very big stir at the time and the goverment went tight lipped and wouldn't answer to the claims, since then it has been confirmed on numerous occasions by those in his party that this was the case indeed and he broke the law to get us into the EU.
Was Britain Taken Into The EU Illegally?

 

[telectrix]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

if that's the case, can we have all them billions back and deport terrorists?

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I note people have mentioned Ted heath, Margaret Thatcher and Hitler in this thread. The first two did more damage than the latter managed to this country.

 

[telectrix]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

and all three added together topped by blair and brown.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Countries messed up anyway. Being run by Angela and now weve got an Islamist lord Mayor of London. Might as well turn the lights off soon, mind you we get what we ask for..........

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I note people have mentioned Ted heath, Margaret Thatcher and Hitler in this thread. The first two did more damage than the latter managed to this country.

Oh dear, someone's letting their romantics getting in the way of reality. You do no homage to the people of this country, who lay down their lives to defeat the Nazis. I hope you choose to retract that remark.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

It's nothing to do with romantics. The people who have let them down are the politicians, of all colours (predominantly blue IMO), who have run this country into the ground for the last 50 odd years. If those that fought come back and see the shambles that this country is becoming I dare say a good many would wonder why they bothered. Now we've got Cameron "dictating" to us and telling us what we should do. I know only too well of the sacrifice people made, my father fought in Burma, my point is that they are being let down big time by the dross that runs this country.

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

It's nothing to do with romantics. The people who have let them down are the politicians, of all colours (predominantly blue IMO)............I know only too well of the sacrifice people made, my father fought in Burma,

Then you should know, not to compare democratically elected & tenured politicians of this country (of whatever political persuasion) and Hitler.

Every five years in this country, if we don't like what our government are dong, we can vote them out. It took a world war to rid us of him.

Democracy, it's what this thread is all about.