EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[andyb]

Have you watched "brexit the movie"?

No Murdoch, but I will do. I try to see most things re the referendum.
I'll be watching as a sceptic though. Not because it's putting the brexit view, I look at all thing politic sceptically.

 

[telectrix]

i thought our septic ally was america. :ciappa:

 

[Midwest]

The Spanish GP can be very boring so I'm go to record it and start watching it about 1/2 way through then good use of the FF button will reduce the tedium.

Hope you didn't miss the best bit on the first lap

 

[Octopus]

Hope you didn't miss the best bit on the first lap

Didn't miss much tbh. Once the Mercedes were out in the kitty litter it made the race worth watching and it was good to see a new winner!

 

[Midwest]

Didn't miss much tbh. Once the Mercedes were out in the kitty litter it made the race worth watching and it was good to see a new winner!

For once, Bernie E did something useful. He told Brundle on the grid walk, he had some bombs in his pockets, to put in the Mercs.

 

[Diddy]

I did laugh at the comment from the previous page where the poster said If you look who supports In then it is a sure out vote lol.
Out -
Boris (Tried to keep a lid on the Murdoch hacking scandal....He is an opportunist at best
Gove - Could be labelled with the same charge as Boris regarding News International and Murdoch ect....Much better "man" than Boris but also a quiet very right wing Tory
Farage - Completely right wing - Not in my political sphere
IDS - He thinks he can do a "Bobby in the shower" scene from Dallas and all his deeds from the last ten years are forgotten
Yes the Leave cheerleaders and information givers really fill me with a nice fuzzy warm feeling of confidence lol.
Again as someone else said here is a video from the in campaign (For the sake of balance)
[video=youtube;waQAPRtOoXI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waQAPRtOoXI[/video]

 

[Octopus]

If you have a hour or so to spare and want to see a well balanced debate then check this out ...


[video=youtube;uYTJGBBjkGo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYTJGBBjkGo[/video]


Watching this has only strengthened my Brexit view as I saw little strength in the 'IN' campaign and many valid strong points and factual arguments from the 'OUT' :yesnod: but this is my personal opinion on watching it.

Just watched this. Interesting debate

Now to find time to watch theb Alan Johnson one!

 

[sparksburnout]

Plus the leader of every mainstream party except Ukip, plus the head of the bank of England, the IFS, the OECD, the IMF, every head of state in Nato, 80% of FTSE companies, just about every serious economic survey ever produced (and there are a lot of them) the UK treasury report, the head of every UK university and major research establishment. The list goes on and on. To be fair and balanced I feel obliged to point out that President Putin, Donald Trump and Boris Johnson all support Brexit.

All the people you have cited have their own agendas for staying "IN". They are all either in power because of the EU, have their ridiculously inflated pay-packets by virtue of the EU, or their pensions all down to the EU. Over 80% of the top company bosses you have mentioned have contracts with the government (represented incorrectly by D. Cameron), and turkeys do not vote for Xmas. All the Uni's get most of their income from overseas students, and yes the rest of them are bankers, what more reason to ignore them? So these people should be ignored. Listen to the unbiased, now retired and with no personal involvement views of people like Lord Lawson.

 

[Darkwood]

I did laugh at the comment from the previous page where the poster said If you look who supports In then it is a sure out vote lol.
Out -
Boris (Tried to keep a lid on the Murdoch hacking scandal....He is an opportunist at best
Gove - Could be labelled with the same charge as Boris regarding News International and Murdoch ect....Much better "man" than Boris but also a quiet very right wing Tory
Farage - Completely right wing - Not in my political sphere
IDS - He thinks he can do a "Bobby in the shower" scene from Dallas and all his deeds from the last ten years are forgotten
Yes the Leave cheerleaders and information givers really fill me with a nice fuzzy warm feeling of confidence lol.
Again as someone else said here is a video from the in campaign (For the sake of balance)
[video=youtube;waQAPRtOoXI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waQAPRtOoXI[/video]

You seem to pick and label each OUT campaigner yet forget the history of the IN campaigners, what the Murdoch hacking scandal has to do with what is best for our countries interests is beyond me, you can slate each candidate individually on any side but its what they bring to the table for this debate that matters, you come across as a person that rather than bring something positive to the table of why we should stay IN other than a very biased factually misleading video would rather play a character assasination game which can be done on any campaigner IN or OUT.

So 3.3million jobs are linked to the export of goods and services, and the point is?.... we sell alot more than we buy, we have the better hand to do a better deal and even if we were offered the worse deal currently on the table then it is nothing near the daily contribution to the EU we have to make for this alledged free trade.. now I'm just speaking on a worse case there as an example of our position on this, it is highly likely that we would get a very good trade deal + then we can also trade with the rest of the world unrestricted, India has said today that if we leave it is interested in trading with us into the multi-billions so that is just one country and then we have the rest of the world - how can getting these deals that with other nations be a risk to the 3,3million jobs, the way I see it we are going to have to take on a bigger workforce to cope. Even with no deals ever made, why is there any real serious risk to the 3.3million jobs, they are not suddenly going to find themselves out of a job because we are not an EU member, the In campaign just doing what it does best, Scaremongering.

It says the European Union is the biggest individual Economy in the world, yes it is and while every other economy has grown in the world guess which one hasn't for over a decade and has a added effect of hampering our own economical growth as we are shackled to it, now when I say every other economy has grown in the world I mean everyone even those small countries, the EU cannot even set up a full trade deal with America after 40yrs yet your little independent countries manage to do so within a year. This is another big point overlooked by the IN campaign when making their case, the fact its the only stagnant Economy in the world and leading predictions estimate it will stay stagnant or even shrink in its current form, this will have a knock on effect to us if we remain, personally I believe that the 5th biggest economy in the world (UK) will have no problem getting trade deals and seeing a rapid growth if we leave, common sense without the scremongering and the ifs, may, coulds denote that been released of all trade restrictions and been able to trade with the rest of the world freely can only be good and promote growth.

The rest of the world is not in the EU but successfully trades with the EU, if economies well down the positional list can enjoy a good trade deal for a very insignificant tariff then why would we be cutting our throats by leaving.


On the discussion of safer IN europe, this is another false claim and misleading statement, most of the UK's intelligence is done through a system external to the EU and its a very good one, an EU wide intelligence service does not exist and is very unlikely to in the near future but there is Europol who still rely on external bodies for vital information and even if we leave there is little chance this intelligence sharing would stop as the UK has amongst one of the best intelligence data systems in the world it is kinda a key hub to europe as appose to the other way around so as goes data sharing then I cannot see any change as its in majority heexternal to the EU.
Safer borders if we are IN ?.. another misguided claim, even though we are not part of the Schengen agreement we as a country don't do any real passport checks on EU citizens so we don't really know who is coming in and because our human rights comes via Brussels we are not allowed to even kick out known rapist, pedo's killers etc until they commit an act over here.. reading the paper the other day of a bloke that committed a rape in his own country, after moving here his history was discovered and he was sent back to his own EU country, he appealed and the EU judge claimed his offence wasn't serious enough for the UK to deport him and give him the right to a family life here ....HMMM and people say we are safer!... even when the intelligence works we have some ridiculous ruling to put a criminals rights ahead of our rights to protect our own. The backlog of criminals walking into the UK legally and illegally waiting for process in order to see them sent back is in the 100,000's now yes agree a proportion are nothing to do with the EU free movement policy but we don't have the time or man-power to get through the backlog and been an EU member makes it easier for illegals to walk in and also doubles the burden with EU crim's walking across the border.

I posted vid of a balanced discussion up but this vid although not entirely factually incorrect is propaganda at best with scaremongering thrown in, its what it doesn't explain that makes it misleading and deceiving, all these big wigs you see making announcements about how bad things will be have A- vested interest in the UK staying as they are looking at there own personal situation or the company they run and B- making claims that have no credible evidence to backup, listen out for the MAY, COULD and MIGHT words used by the IN campaign almost to excess.

Remember when the UK was going to go into economical collapse by remaining outside the Euro or the claims would have you believe, well it does seem the same financial figures who so badly predicted that are the same ones now making the claim we cannot stand on our own feet.

 

[Midwest]

You seem to pick and label each OUT campaigner yet forget the history of the IN campaigners, what the Murdoch hacking scandal has to do with what is best for our countries interests is beyond me, you can slate each candidate individually on any side but its what they bring to the table for this debate that matters, you come across as a person that rather than bring something positive to the table of why we should stay IN other than a very biased factually misleading video would rather play a character assasination game which can be done on any campaigner IN or OUT.

So 3.3million jobs are linked to the export of goods and services, and the point is?.... we sell alot more than we buy, we have the better hand to do a better deal and even if we were offered the worse deal currently on the table then it is nothing near the daily contribution to the EU we have to make for this alledged free trade.. now I'm just speaking on a worse case there as an example of our position on this, it is highly likely that we would get a very good trade deal + then we can also trade with the rest of the world unrestricted, India has said today that if we leave it is interested in trading with us into the multi-billions so that is just one country and then we have the rest of the world - how can getting these deals that with other nations be a risk to the 3,3million jobs, the way I see it we are going to have to take on a bigger workforce to cope. Even with no deals ever made, why is there any real serious risk to the 3.3million jobs, they are not suddenly going to find themselves out of a job because we are not an EU member, the In campaign just doing what it does best, Scaremongering.

It says the European Union is the biggest individual Economy in the world, yes it is and while every other economy has grown in the world guess which one hasn't for over a decade and has a added effect of hampering our own economical growth as we are shackled to it, now when I say every other economy has grown in the world I mean everyone even those small countries, the EU cannot even set up a full trade deal with America after 40yrs yet your little independent countries manage to do so within a year. This is another big point overlooked by the IN campaign when making their case, the fact its the only stagnant Economy in the world and leading predictions estimate it will stay stagnant or even shrink in its current form, this will have a knock on effect to us if we remain, personally I believe that the 5th biggest economy in the world (UK) will have no problem getting trade deals and seeing a rapid growth if we leave, common sense without the scremongering and the ifs, may, coulds denote that been released of all trade restrictions and been able to trade with the rest of the world freely can only be good and promote growth.

The rest of the world is not in the EU but successfully trades with the EU, if economies well down the positional list can enjoy a good trade deal for a very insignificant tariff then why would we be cutting our throats by leaving.


On the discussion of safer IN europe, this is another false claim and misleading statement, most of the UK's intelligence is done through a system external to the EU and its a very good one, an EU wide intelligence service does not exist and is very unlikely to in the near future but there is Europol who still rely on external bodies for vital information and even if we leave there is little chance this intelligence sharing would stop as the UK has amongst one of the best intelligence data systems in the world it is kinda a key hub to europe as appose to the other way around so as goes data sharing then I cannot see any change as its in majority heexternal to the EU.
Safer borders if we are IN ?.. another misguided claim, even though we are not part of the Schengen agreement we as a country don't do any real passport checks on EU citizens so we don't really know who is coming in and because our human rights comes via Brussels we are not allowed to even kick out known rapist, pedo's killers etc until they commit an act over here.. reading the paper the other day of a bloke that committed a rape in his own country, after moving here his history was discovered and he was sent back to his own EU country, he appealed and the EU judge claimed his offence wasn't serious enough for the UK to deport him and give him the right to a family life here ....HMMM and people say we are safer!... even when the intelligence works we have some ridiculous ruling to put a criminals rights ahead of our rights to protect our own. The backlog of criminals walking into the UK legally and illegally waiting for process in order to see them sent back is in the 100,000's now yes agree a proportion are nothing to do with the EU free movement policy but we don't have the time or man-power to get through the backlog and been an EU member makes it easier for illegals to walk in and also doubles the burden with EU crim's walking across the border.

I posted vid of a balanced discussion up but this vid although not entirely factually incorrect is propaganda at best with scaremongering thrown in, its what it doesn't explain that makes it misleading and deceiving, all these big wigs you see making announcements about how bad things will be have A- vested interest in the UK staying as they are looking at there own personal situation or the company they run and B- making claims that have no credible evidence to backup, listen out for the MAY, COULD and MIGHT words used by the IN campaign almost to excess.

Remember when the UK was going to go into economical collapse by remaining outside the Euro or the claims would have you believe, well it does seem the same financial figures who so badly predicted that are the same ones now making the claim we cannot stand on our own feet.

Can you précis that for me

 

[andyb]

Can you précis that for me

He wants out.

 

[Diddy]

You seem to pick and label each OUT campaigner yet forget the history of the IN campaigners, what the Murdoch hacking scandal has to do with what is best for our countries interests is beyond me, you can slate each candidate individually on any side but its what they bring to the table for this debate that matters, you come across as a person that rather than bring something positive to the table of why we should stay IN other than a very biased factually misleading video would rather play a character assasination game which can be done on any campaigner IN or OUT.

So 3.3million jobs are linked to the export of goods and services, and the point is?.... we sell alot more than we buy, we have the better hand to do a better deal and even if we were offered the worse deal currently on the table then it is nothing near the daily contribution to the EU we have to make for this alledged free trade.. now I'm just speaking on a worse case there as an example of our position on this, it is highly likely that we would get a very good trade deal + then we can also trade with the rest of the world unrestricted, India has said today that if we leave it is interested in trading with us into the multi-billions so that is just one country and then we have the rest of the world - how can getting these deals that with other nations be a risk to the 3,3million jobs, the way I see it we are going to have to take on a bigger workforce to cope. Even with no deals ever made, why is there any real serious risk to the 3.3million jobs, they are not suddenly going to find themselves out of a job because we are not an EU member, the In campaign just doing what it does best, Scaremongering.

It says the European Union is the biggest individual Economy in the world, yes it is and while every other economy has grown in the world guess which one hasn't for over a decade and has a added effect of hampering our own economical growth as we are shackled to it, now when I say every other economy has grown in the world I mean everyone even those small countries, the EU cannot even set up a full trade deal with America after 40yrs yet your little independent countries manage to do so within a year. This is another big point overlooked by the IN campaign when making their case, the fact its the only stagnant Economy in the world and leading predictions estimate it will stay stagnant or even shrink in its current form, this will have a knock on effect to us if we remain, personally I believe that the 5th biggest economy in the world (UK) will have no problem getting trade deals and seeing a rapid growth if we leave, common sense without the scremongering and the ifs, may, coulds denote that been released of all trade restrictions and been able to trade with the rest of the world freely can only be good and promote growth.

The rest of the world is not in the EU but successfully trades with the EU, if economies well down the positional list can enjoy a good trade deal for a very insignificant tariff then why would we be cutting our throats by leaving.


On the discussion of safer IN europe, this is another false claim and misleading statement, most of the UK's intelligence is done through a system external to the EU and its a very good one, an EU wide intelligence service does not exist and is very unlikely to in the near future but there is Europol who still rely on external bodies for vital information and even if we leave there is little chance this intelligence sharing would stop as the UK has amongst one of the best intelligence data systems in the world it is kinda a key hub to europe as appose to the other way around so as goes data sharing then I cannot see any change as its in majority heexternal to the EU.
Safer borders if we are IN ?.. another misguided claim, even though we are not part of the Schengen agreement we as a country don't do any real passport checks on EU citizens so we don't really know who is coming in and because our human rights comes via Brussels we are not allowed to even kick out known rapist, pedo's killers etc until they commit an act over here.. reading the paper the other day of a bloke that committed a rape in his own country, after moving here his history was discovered and he was sent back to his own EU country, he appealed and the EU judge claimed his offence wasn't serious enough for the UK to deport him and give him the right to a family life here ....HMMM and people say we are safer!... even when the intelligence works we have some ridiculous ruling to put a criminals rights ahead of our rights to protect our own. The backlog of criminals walking into the UK legally and illegally waiting for process in order to see them sent back is in the 100,000's now yes agree a proportion are nothing to do with the EU free movement policy but we don't have the time or man-power to get through the backlog and been an EU member makes it easier for illegals to walk in and also doubles the burden with EU crim's walking across the border.

I posted vid of a balanced discussion up but this vid although not entirely factually incorrect is propaganda at best with scaremongering thrown in, its what it doesn't explain that makes it misleading and deceiving, all these big wigs you see making announcements about how bad things will be have A- vested interest in the UK staying as they are looking at there own personal situation or the company they run and B- making claims that have no credible evidence to backup, listen out for the MAY, COULD and MIGHT words used by the IN campaign almost to excess.

The reference to the News International aka Murdoch scandal is to throw light on the fact that these guy's were colluders. These were people on Murdoch's payroll who went out of their way to silence the illegal activity going on their - Bribing the Met, Bribing Scotland yard top man, Remember this is the guy who boasts that he has personally picked the prime minister of the UK from Thatcher onwards. His media empire have a hell of a lot to do with this debate IMHO - "They" have been against the EU since Murdoch took over the paper...and with all his newspapers and sky news ect ect he has a hell of a lot of influence in how people will vote - Im sorry but I don't trust them at all. These guy's are telling people how to think and the amount of bull that they have printed as fact over the EU has been breathtaking...and im going back from 25 years ago lol...that is when the "out" campaign started in earnest.
You say I/We are negative and to a certain extent I would agree - I am quite happy to talk about the positives but you have to fight the out campaigns constant false claims about we wil get this, we will demand that, we can be great again ect ect....It's all very well saying these things but neither you nor I can be sure which way it will go if we stay or leave....Nobody can claim to tell the future....Think back to the Scottish Indi ref - Apparently the SNP ect didn't convince the electorate of their "vision"...Well that's because it is easy to debunk something that hasn't happened...you can't prove "It will be ok"...because the reality is you just don't know.
So negativity comes from having to be boring and list stats ect....3.3 million jobs is a stat. How can you say they are not going to be going anywhere ?
Say Germany upon us leaving is desperate to get going with a trade deal with us...But they can't can they ? They trade as part of the EU and there are 27 other countries who need convincing that trading with the UK on the UK's new terms is good for THEM...There will be some countries out there who may think sod that what's in it for me...my job is to take something back to show MY people.
Lets say we get a trade deal done how long do we think that will take ? Look at the pound now, Do we really want another 2,3,4,10 years of this ? This stuff is going to hit pensions,savings,interest rates the lot....it can't NOT have an effect. So lets say it takes 5 years to get a deal - will it be "free" will it include free movement of people ? Say when the sums are done we end up contributing half of what we do (Because everybody in some way contributes to the EU if they deal with the...no completely free rides exist as far as I can see) - How long will it take us to recoup what we loose in the mean time (Im talking the fact that the pound has fallen and continues to look unsteady)....
I also look at those pushing for out and most of them strike me as the types that would love to get stuck right into all the workers rights that we have come to enjoy due to being part of the EU.....I wouldn't put it past the likes of Gove, Boris ect probably drooling at the thought of scrapping all these pesky workers perks. Can't say the remain camp is full of distinguished chaps....but those at the top and most likely to be in positions of power post brexit scare the bejesus out of me.

 

[Darkwood]

The reference to the News International aka Murdoch scandal is to throw light on the fact that these guy's were colluders. These were people on Murdoch's payroll who went out of their way to silence the illegal activity going on their - Bribing the Met, Bribing Scotland yard top man, Remember this is the guy who boasts that he has personally picked the prime minister of the UK from Thatcher onwards. His media empire have a hell of a lot to do with this debate IMHO - "They" have been against the EU since Murdoch took over the paper...and with all his newspapers and sky news ect ect he has a hell of a lot of influence in how people will vote - Im sorry but I don't trust them at all. These guy's are telling people how to think and the amount of bull that they have printed as fact over the EU has been breathtaking...and im going back from 25 years ago lol...that is when the "out" campaign started in earnest.
You say I/We are negative and to a certain extent I would agree - I am quite happy to talk about the positives but you have to fight the out campaigns constant false claims about we wil get this, we will demand that, we can be great again ect ect....It's all very well saying these things but neither you nor I can be sure which way it will go if we stay or leave....Nobody can claim to tell the future....Think back to the Scottish Indi ref - Apparently the SNP ect didn't convince the electorate of their "vision"...Well that's because it is easy to debunk something that hasn't happened...you can't prove "It will be ok"...because the reality is you just don't know.
So negativity comes from having to be boring and list stats ect....3.3 million jobs is a stat. How can you say they are not going to be going anywhere ?
Say Germany upon us leaving is desperate to get going with a trade deal with us...But they can't can they ? They trade as part of the EU and there are 27 other countries who need convincing that trading with the UK on the UK's new terms is good for THEM...There will be some countries out there who may think sod that what's in it for me...my job is to take something back to show MY people.
Lets say we get a trade deal done how long do we think that will take ? Look at the pound now, Do we really want another 2,3,4,10 years of this ? This stuff is going to hit pensions,savings,interest rates the lot....it can't NOT have an effect. So lets say it takes 5 years to get a deal - will it be "free" will it include free movement of people ? Say when the sums are done we end up contributing half of what we do (Because everybody in some way contributes to the EU if they deal with the...no completely free rides exist as far as I can see) - How long will it take us to recoup what we loose in the mean time (Im talking the fact that the pound has fallen and continues to look unsteady)....
I also look at those pushing for out and most of them strike me as the types that would love to get stuck right into all the workers rights that we have come to enjoy due to being part of the EU.....I wouldn't put it past the likes of Gove, Boris ect probably drooling at the thought of scrapping all these pesky workers perks. Can't say the remain camp is full of distinguished chaps....but those at the top and most likely to be in positions of power post brexit scare the bejesus out of me.

There seems to be this consensus that upon leaving the EU all that laws, rights and trade will just cease to exist until a deal is done, in leaving the EU the only laws that will change are those that are doing us harm, no government who wishes to remain in power is going to suddenly remove workers rights but we can pick and choose those laws that have worked and drop the ones that don't work in our interest.
Trading will carry on as normal if we vote to leave, it will still carry on as we do now with free trade deal as we have a few years to make the change so no sudden shock and masses of panicing headless chickens running around.. when you say I cannot possibly know what will happen then yes to some degree I agree but I am been careful with my arguments that anything I say can be looked up and confirmed and when I express we will most likley be better off then I base it on factual info like mentioned India trade deal which alone is worth a lot.

What drives trade in goods is not governments or banks but the customer and there desires for certain goods, this is how trade and marketing has always worked, the only thing governments can do is open or restrict the markets which brings me to a very valid point in that Brussels tells us who we can trade with and how much, this is to ensure we do most of it with the EU for there own vested interests this props the EU up and limits competition which would see prices drop. Where a trade deal exists and a tariff is imposed it is usually insignificant on the whole.
If we set up a trade deal with a new country who we don't trade with then it comes down to a deal making game and can take a while, when you already have a large 2 way trade with a country then neither is going to risk economic collapse or uncertainty by silly large tarrifs etc We sell alot more than we buy to the EU so its in the EU's vested interest to not damage their own economy by dragging it out or imposing unrealistic tarrifs.... of course they won't tell you this as they don't want to give us any kind of feeling of security, dont forget we are one of the biggest contributers to the EU and it will be a big blow to them to loose that money.

Im not doing what the IN campaign does and somehow predicts the outcome which tend to rain everything from dooms day to WW3 according to them, I use the standard marketing model of supply and demand and the fact all trade restrictions will be lifted, both are circumstances that even using just a bit of common sense will show trade growth, better competition which leads to more jobs and cheaper goods.

The In campaign know the economy will still grow and they led a very misleading headline about families been thousands worse off a year by 2030, now what they failed to tell you was they were using 2 figures that showed the growth if we stayed and if we left, now the leaving figure predicted a lower growth so they then figure from the higher one and said that what families will lose, it was made to appear that it would be taken out of their existing income somehow which was not the case, it was just a growth difference. Crucially the prediction was only using trade figures as we are now and didn't include any new trade with the rest of the world, I'll let you work out for yourself that had it included the opening of new trade to the rest of the world then even with a worse case scenario it would have shown a greater growth if we left.
I'll remind you that the EU is the only large economy that has stayed stagnant for over a decade and the majority of Economists including their own predict this to be the case for some time to come which again seems to slip the minds of the 'Remain' side when saying its better to trade from the inside as oppose the outside, common sense would favour the out on all these points and no I'm not plucking all this from thin air as you can look up any of the points I made, also I'm not been selective with my wording whilst hiding the reality here which tends to be a trait of the IN campaign a lately. I'm not sure of your age here but the older generation although not all tend to want to leave where as the younger favour staying, the reason falls down to the older generation has watched and seen both the positives and negatives which have come with been an EU member in a sense they have a more balanced overview where as the younger generation doesn't know any real difference as they have little to reflect back on been young, that and the fact the higher Education system, colleges etc tend to be pro-EU due to lets say financial incentives from the EU.

 

[silverfox1]

This is the trailer for a film/documentary called The Brussels Business made in 2012, I will post a link underneath to the full film on you tube.It is a look into the powerful lobbyists in Brussels all 15000 of them also the ERT who they are and how they came to be, the film is long but worth it to see how the machine works. please watch the trailer at least, I am sure it will make you want to find out more.

[video=youtube;JEaK2OteEws]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEaK2OteEws[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMuUEd6w54E

 

[Adam W]

I think the idea is to listen to the reasons for and against, decide for yourself which sound most convincing, and vote that way.

It is clear that the statistics the big company bosses, or "business leaders" are bandying around hold no substance - one tells us we'll all be £32 a month worse off if we stay in, the next one tells us we'll all be £32 a month better off, with little explanation as to why. They all seem to have an opinion and are using the weight of their company to tell everyone else (particularly their employees) how to vote, which I think is wrong.

I find it quite scary that there are people out there who will vote on the basis of the personalities backing the campaign - vote with/against BoJo because he's a roly-poly buffoon, or vote how Jezza Corbyn tells you to because he speaks with conviction and he has a beard, or vote against him because he dresses like Mr Bean.