Heating Engineer set me a challenge

[telectrix]

easiest option is to send tidyboiler there. after 30 minutes, there'd be no copper to argue about. :43:

 

[chris murphy]

chris, relax man. i don't think i said anything about your socket idea; i was just offering a solution that hadn't been mentioned yet.

what you describe above does sound a lot more involved than having a go at the socket, but like i said, i thought we were just throwing out options on how to get it sorted. i wasn't trying to trump your suggestion.


but i do think 30 nicker for inhibitor is dear (unless you're getting a gallon). the last bottle i bought cost £7.99.

"Hello shagbite",

Thanks for your reply.

I use ONLY the `Best` Corrosion Inhibitor - made by Fernox.


The last thing one would want to do with a Central Heating System is to put in a `Cheaper Alternative` regarding Corrosion Inhibitor - So I use only Fernox Superconcentrate [in a Tube] where I have to `Inject` Inhibitor into the System / Combination Boiler or System Boiler / Sealed Heating Systems - or Fernox MB1 where I can pour it into the F/E Tank when I am Filling Up / Refilling the System.

The Fernox Superconcentrate in a Tube is approaching £30.00 in price when I have to purchase it from local outlets - where I might need to obtain it without prior notice.

If I know that I will need it I can get it from my Suppliers for quite a bit cheaper that that.

I would usually have 2 or 3 Tubes of Superconcentrate and a couple of containers of Fernox MB1 in my Van.

But my example of the `£30.00 Corrosion Inhibitor` was if I was on the Job and unexpectedly had to Drain down and Refill a Heating System - purchasing the Inhibitor at a local Plumbers Merchant / Screwfix / Toolstation or similar outlet.


Although I have been involved in working on MANY Heating Systems where there was almost certainly NO Corrosion Inhibitor added when the System was installed - when I refill the System it will have the Best Corrosion Inhibitor - Fernox.

Some of those Systems will have had to be not only `Power-flushed` - But will have had to have been Descaled and Neutralised / Flushed out PRIOR to the Power-flushing - all because NO Corrision Inhibitor was added - or none was added after an Alteration / Repair !

That process will have cost HUNDREDS of Pounds !

I am sure that other Corrosion Inhibitors do fulfil the specifications required to be sold / advertised as a Corrosion Inhibitor - Sentinel Products for example [Inhibitor approx. £18.00] - but as a lifetime proponent of the product I will always use Fernox.


Regards,

Chris

 

[telectrix]

A plumber with a freezing kit should take no more than an hour to remove the pipes and alter the pipe work. .

if i had a plumber and a freezing kit in the same location, it would not be pipes that got froze, it'd be wet-pants testicles.

 

[SPARK2B]

......i see a war breaking out between the 2 trades if this is anything to go by,.....

.......altho i am not yet an electrician,.....i have an uncle who works in a quarry,....he said you can solve most of lifes problems with explosives.....

sooo.......

 

[Guitarist]

Just to clarify things....
Messing about with the boiler was not an option (although I could easily have drained the system down and refilled with inhibitor), as the socket was :
A) In a stupid place
B) Fed by a damaged cable anyway

The socket was replaced above the pipework, with new cable.

Thanks to Chris, as always, for his expert plumbing advice.

 

[specs]

looking at the pic it doesn't look like you could get a smoke paper between the plug top on the left and copper pipe, therefore no amount of wiggling and jiggling is going to get it out far enough to undo skt screw on that side, the one on the right might jiggle out enough to get to that screw, however if the one on the left is still fixed the skt is not going anywhere. As far as freezing is concerned that is a non starter as there is not enough room to put clamps + would you really want to freeze pipes that close to boiler even if you had the room. as for draining the system 'why' just lock down all rads so water is still in them so all your draining is water in pipework and in that situation why would you need to flush. just refill system add fernox , bleed rads. this all pointless now as op has cut off plug tops and extended skt. which is near enough what I would have done in the first place, Job done.

 

[chris murphy]

looking at the pic it doesn't look like you could get a smoke paper between the plug top on the left and copper pipe, therefore no amount of wiggling and jiggling is going to get it out far enough to undo skt screw on that side, the one on the right might jiggle out enough to get to that screw, however if the one on the left is still fixed the skt is not going anywhere. As far as freezing is concerned that is a non starter as there is not enough room to put clamps + would you really want to freeze pipes that close to boiler even if you had the room. as for draining the system 'why' just lock down all rads so water is still in them so all your draining is water in pipework and in that situation why would you need to flush. just refill system add fernox , bleed rads. this all pointless now as op has cut off plug tops and extended skt. which is near enough what I would have done in the first place, Job done.

"Hello specs",


Here are some answers from a Heating Engineer to your comments about this Heating System:

The `Freezing` suggestion was immediately ruled out by Me - for the same reason that You wrote.

Your idea of `Lock Down the Rads` - turning off the Radiator Valves on both sides to keep the water in the Radiators has TWO `Drawbacks`:

1. Unless the Lockshield Valves are checked for exactly the amount that they are Open - which is NOT just guessing `2 Turns open` for example - when they are reopened to something which is NOT exactly how they were this WILL throw out the Balancing of the entire Heating System !

And contrary to popular belief Balancing a Heating System CORRECTLY is NOT an easy / quick task - it requires a Digital Thermometer with a surface temperature probe or a Good Quality Digital Laser Thermometer - or as in the `Old Days` - clip on Pipe Thermometers - ideally 2 for each Radiator.

Obviously I know that NOT all Heating Systems are correctly Balanced to start with - but any alteration of the Lockshield Valves is bound to make matters worse - unless People are equipped with the correct Thermometers and are prepared to Re-balance the System which can take Hours.

2. Depending on the design / type of Heating System `locking down the Rads` can easily cause severe Air Locks when trying to Refill the Pipework and Boiler.


I did NOT mention the requirement to Flush the Heating System regarding THIS topic - I mentioned it in a reply to shagbite about the Corrosion Inhibitor that I use and I stated that De-scaling - Neutralising and Power Flushing has often been needed on Heating Systems that I have worked on to try and rectify the `Damage` caused previously by the Heating System Installer or subsequent `Engineers` NOT adding Corrosion Inhibitor.


I really wish that I had NOT bothered to post MY `Thoughts` on the Original Post - I did so somewhat light-heartedly as I would NEVER try to suggest to Professional Electricians / Electrical Engineers how to go about ANY Electrical task - it was just how I would try.

BUT it has developed into Electricians TRYING to Tell Me - a Heating Engineer how to go about Disconnecting Pipework from a Boiler.

I also notice that no-one had ANY constructive criticism about what I described that I would TRY in a similar situation.

Obviously You could state:

1. Leave it to an Electrician.

2. After `Isolating` the Electrics at the Main Switch on the Consumer Unit - can I be certain that there is NO Power to these Socket outlets ? - I would still check the Heating Controls / Boiler wiring for Voltage.

3. Do it the way Guitarist did - He is a Professional.


Apart from these fairly obvious comments - where did I `go wrong` with my description of what to TRY - IF there had been room to try what I described - ?


Regards,


Chris

 

[pennywise]

Glad you got it sorted Guitarist, I know I wouldn't of had the patients.

 

[dan86]

getting mega boring now. zzzzz

 

[chris murphy]

How many times! its not an electrical issue it's the bloody plank of a heating/plumbing contractors for putting the pipe over it lol. Once the problem with the pipe work has been resolved the plumber can just un plug it , mountain out of a mole hill .

"Hello again pennywise",


Forget about whether this is an Electrical Issue - You are just irritated by My responses to other Members giving their `Opinions` about the Heating System / Draining it etc.


Member specs TRIED to `be clever` and TELL Me how to go about disconnecting the Boiler Pipework - How it was not necessary to Drain down the System correctly etc.

But as He obviously has a `DIYer`s` `knowledge` / approach to Central Heating Systems - I have had to contradict Him and inform Him that what He wrote is NOT correct !

I did so Just in case anyone else decided to try His`method` of isolating the Radiators and draining the Boiler and Pipework.

He should NOT have tried to affirm that He knows anything about Draining a Heating System - let alone stating it to a Heating Engineer !

I have been a Member of this Forum for about 22 Months - ALL of my Posts with a few exceptions have been replies to Members questions about Heating - Plumbing and a few about Gas and have been to `Pay Back` the Members of this Forum for some help that I received about an unusual [for Me] Heating wiring plan.

I have NEVER `Argued` / fallen out with another Member.


BUT I definitely will NOT just sit back and have INCORRECT statements written to Me about Heating - Plumbing or Gas without responding !

Perhaps I should end my involvement on THIS Thread here - which I will do unless I receive any more Incorrect statements about a Heating System / Draining down to disconnect Pipework etc.


Regards to All,


Chris

 

[dan86]

Perhaps I should end my involvement on THIS Thread here

perhaps everybody should

 

[pennywise]

Not really irritated just amused, it's all water under the bridge anyway. Thanks for the input, I shall bare you in mind for any heating and plumbing issues in the future .

Regards

David

 

[Silly Sausage]

it's all water under the plug anyway.

edited

 

[tidyboiler]

easiest option is to send tidyboiler there. after 30 minutes, there'd be no copper to argue about. :43:

Did someone mention copper??? .................... :drool5:

 

[Geordie Spark]

"Hello specs",


Here are some answers from a Heating Engineer to your comments about this Heating System:

The `Freezing` suggestion was immediately ruled out by Me - for the same reason that You wrote.

Your idea of `Lock Down the Rads` - turning off the Radiator Valves on both sides to keep the water in the Radiators has TWO `Drawbacks`:

1. Unless the Lockshield Valves are checked for exactly the amount that they are Open - which is NOT just guessing `2 Turns open` for example - when they are reopened to something which is NOT exactly how they were this WILL throw out the Balancing of the entire Heating System !

And contrary to popular belief Balancing a Heating System CORRECTLY is NOT an easy / quick task - it requires a Digital Thermometer with a surface temperature probe or a Good Quality Digital Laser Thermometer - or as in the `Old Days` - clip on Pipe Thermometers - ideally 2 for each Radiator.

Obviously I know that NOT all Heating Systems are correctly Balanced to start with - but any alteration of the Lockshield Valves is bound to make matters worse - unless People are equipped with the correct Thermometers and are prepared to Re-balance the System which can take Hours.

2. Depending on the design / type of Heating System `locking down the Rads` can easily cause severe Air Locks when trying to Refill the Pipework and Boiler.


I did NOT mention the requirement to Flush the Heating System regarding THIS topic - I mentioned it in a reply to shagbite about the Corrosion Inhibitor that I use and I stated that De-scaling - Neutralising and Power Flushing has often been needed on Heating Systems that I have worked on to try and rectify the `Damage` caused previously by the Heating System Installer or subsequent `Engineers` NOT adding Corrosion Inhibitor.


I really wish that I had NOT bothered to post MY `Thoughts` on the Original Post - I did so somewhat light-heartedly as I would NEVER try to suggest to Professional Electricians / Electrical Engineers how to go about ANY Electrical task - it was just how I would try.

BUT it has developed into Electricians TRYING to Tell Me - a Heating Engineer how to go about Disconnecting Pipework from a Boiler.

I also notice that no-one had ANY constructive criticism about what I described that I would TRY in a similar situation.

Obviously You could state:

1. Leave it to an Electrician.

2. After `Isolating` the Electrics at the Main Switch on the Consumer Unit - can I be certain that there is NO Power to these Socket outlets ? - I would still check the Heating Controls / Boiler wiring for Voltage.

3. Do it the way Guitarist did - He is a Professional.


Apart from these fairly obvious comments - where did I `go wrong` with my description of what to TRY - IF there had been room to try what I described - ?


Regards,


Chris

Hi Chris

Until I saw this: 1. Unless the Lockshield Valves are checked for exactly the amount that they are Open - which is NOT just guessing `2 Turns open` for example - when they are reopened to something which is NOT exactly how they were this WILL throw out the Balancing of the entire Heating System !

I was thinking it was only me who bothered to balance the system !!!

I think you and I must be in the minority !