Hope I am alowed to post this Question ???

[Cliff]

Hi everyone My first and possibly my last post if not allowed, I am not an electrician but am having trouble finding one that can do the work I require. I thought ask on here and see what anwers I get.

The problem : ( we have been in this house two years , it already had an extension on it. I have not done any recent DIY work so have not hammered a nail into a wire etc.. )

My breaker keeps tripping, this is on a lighting circuit the breaker is a 10 amp ,The circuit seems to have been extended to include the lights in the extension taken off the upstairs lighting supply ?

All lights upstairs go (including the loft light ) apart from a light at the top of the stairs, this I can only assume does not go as it has switches at the top and bottom of the stairs and must be connected to the downstairs circuit.

we also get one light in the main house trip ( back of the house next to the annex) and all the lights in the annex ( mother in law terriority).

I have now had two electricians turn up, both have said the circuit is not overlloaded; 1 didnt have any tools insisted it must be the outside lights checked these and didnt find a problem so left saying he didnt know what it was. But said I should try and narrow it down e.g re set breaker and switch on lights one by one etc.. I have done this and think I have narrowed it down to the annex part of the house.

The 2nd electrician has been here 6 hours today at £32 per hour didnt find it either, 1st took all bulbs out and checked the circuit everything fine.
The went around dropped the ceiling roses checked wires etc everything fine .
Checked the lights in the bathroom (annex) and said they were fine.

Finally after 4 hours found a wire in the loft saying it was that but didnt know where it went ?
Suggested I take up all the floor boards in my daughters bedroom and look for a junction box and it will be there. also said he would recommend rewiring everything. When we moved in we had letters etc saying all electrics updated and new extension wired this included a new fuse box this was done by previous owners in 2001.

The 2nd electrician replaced the breaker with a 6amp one saying the old one was faulty but this still trips. At present it will not reset.

Has anyone any ideas on the problem of where I can find a qualified electrician capable of doing the job. I live in Bromley in Kent.
Hope this post is acceptable and you can help.

If you need more info or I have not explained things correctly please reply and I will give as much info as I can.

Cliff



Mod Edit: Just removed your postcode. Try not to post personal details.

 

[tacon]

are the outside lights P.I.R controlled and have you got energy saving lamps in them. I had an intermitant fault from rodent damage before tested ok.

 

[jambo65]

just tried to work out the max demand on the circuit, on a rough calc it seems fine unles ure spot lights/floury hav a higher start up current, other than tht i would hav to get my mits into it to c and i dont fancy the commute from glasgow, is there any mains smoke detectors in this part of the house???

 

[Cliff]

Thanks everyone I have a few things to check and will not be doing this tonight as it's getting dark with no lights LOL.

When I do find out the cause I will post the answer.


Thanks again for all the help.

Cliff

 

[cheeky_blue]

Cliff, once you have noted the wattage of every light add them all together then divide by 230 (voltage) this will give you the current being drawn. Did you say you have two chandeliers each with ten 40 Watt lamps?
I would get those fans checked out though.

 

[silva.foxx]

Hi everyone My first and possibly my last post if not allowed, Cliff

Cliff

It's pleasing to see someone be so informative on a site where you're not too proud to ask for help. We're usually acustommed(?) to "My lights are tripping; what's the problem?" but your post is great.

Never be afraid of asking anything here. These guys are fab.

As to your problem: it's a tricky one. Loose connectons somewhere, iffy tranny on the low energy lighting (if 12v etc...), under-rated cable in the radial somewhere, over-rated lamps in lamp holders ie 60w in max 40w, sound something possibly heat related, etc... not much help but things to check.

Is there a electric towel rail in the bathroom that could've been added to the lighting circuit?

Did the spark do a current check on the circuit?

Any cabling run along central heating pipes?

Did the sparky leave any test results that you could post here?

These are blooming annoying faults. I feel for you, mate. Hope it gets resolved soon. Again, glad to see someone put so much into helping themselves by providing good info.

Regards
s.f

 

[Spudnik]

I would also like to point out that any competent electrician should be able to help, not just NICEIC registered ones.

Local Authority Building Control - HOME

 

[mkmukok]

Hi Cliff,
I have had similar foult in my friend`s house.
He had a fuse , 5 A on lighting circuit upstairs, melting off in 5 min apr.and I have assuimed is a cable damaged on the loft.I was wright...

Test the insulation resistance of the circuit ( even better test first continuity of the conductors): if there is any damaged cable it will show up as a low readings on the insulation test.

Then split the circuit in 2 and test bouth parths, and so on...
Disconect any apliances and lights before testing.

I hope this will help...

 

[ian]

I have had a few faults like this, when its found its usually something very simple. The last one was a cable running through the same hole in a joist as a heating pipe. Over a couple of years the insulation had broken down, then when the heating was on and the pipe heated the live and earth shorted out then cleared when the pipe cooled. Took me around 7 hours to find that. Had another where a cable was in between a floorboard and a joist, and when it was walked on shorted out, then cleared again.

When trying to find faults like this, and all the usual stuff has been eliminated then its time to think outside the box.

Ian

 

[boatnik1]

Or you can have the situation where the system overloads because the blighter next door (terraced Houses) is running his lights or even a small heater from your lighting cables in the loft. Not usual but it has happened.

 

[DXMN]

If you have a split board check the neutral for that circuit is connected to the mcb side and not the rcd neutral bar

 

[Cliff]

So much advice thanks everyone, I have had some sound help and even had a chat offline and now believe I am on the right track. I have been out and purchased an ammeter and a while I was at it got a socket tester to check all those also. I dont get in until late so not the ideal time to check the system when you have no lights. So I will be having a major checking weekend and will let everyone know my findings after this time. I have decided to check everything, the sparks that came the 2nd time and stayed hours did say he thought he found the problem but it went from the loft into my daughters bedroom. 1 question I did ask him I did find a box marked "Aquilister" in the loft ( so I presume it's a shower pump )

I only noticed this approx 30 mins before he came and pointed out it had the old choc blocks connections and not an enclosed junction box . I asked if this could be doing it he never checked this as far as I am aware so do not know if it's on the circuit. another thing for me to check.

Along with my bathroom fan etc..

I will post an update soon .

Cliff

 

[12345aob]

Hi Cliff,
Where in the country are you? maybe a member could sort you out.

 

[Cliff]

I am in bromley Kent. If someone could help I do not expect to get this sorted for nothing I am willing to pay but would just like someone who has a clue.

Cliff

 

[Andy Smith]

Just readining these posts.

It was said that.

1) The trip was reduced to 6amps are you sure that your not now drawing 6amps + ?
2) If the trip goes back in it isn,t a permenant dead short.
3) Possible causes
a. Over current something else is coming on as mentioned.
b. Possible something is moving causing a short

Question if you put the trip back in and do absolutley nothing how long does it take for trip to go? (dont let anyone move or touch anything)

Sorry cant help but light years away!

 

[Cliff]

Thanks for the tips Andy I will try this tomorrow. How come all the people that seem to care about their trade and are very knowledgable are no where near Bromley.

Full update tomorrow


Cliff