Hope I am alowed to post this Question ???

[Cliff]

Hi everyone My first and possibly my last post if not allowed, I am not an electrician but am having trouble finding one that can do the work I require. I thought ask on here and see what anwers I get.

The problem : ( we have been in this house two years , it already had an extension on it. I have not done any recent DIY work so have not hammered a nail into a wire etc.. )

My breaker keeps tripping, this is on a lighting circuit the breaker is a 10 amp ,The circuit seems to have been extended to include the lights in the extension taken off the upstairs lighting supply ?

All lights upstairs go (including the loft light ) apart from a light at the top of the stairs, this I can only assume does not go as it has switches at the top and bottom of the stairs and must be connected to the downstairs circuit.

we also get one light in the main house trip ( back of the house next to the annex) and all the lights in the annex ( mother in law terriority).

I have now had two electricians turn up, both have said the circuit is not overlloaded; 1 didnt have any tools insisted it must be the outside lights checked these and didnt find a problem so left saying he didnt know what it was. But said I should try and narrow it down e.g re set breaker and switch on lights one by one etc.. I have done this and think I have narrowed it down to the annex part of the house.

The 2nd electrician has been here 6 hours today at £32 per hour didnt find it either, 1st took all bulbs out and checked the circuit everything fine.
The went around dropped the ceiling roses checked wires etc everything fine .
Checked the lights in the bathroom (annex) and said they were fine.

Finally after 4 hours found a wire in the loft saying it was that but didnt know where it went ?
Suggested I take up all the floor boards in my daughters bedroom and look for a junction box and it will be there. also said he would recommend rewiring everything. When we moved in we had letters etc saying all electrics updated and new extension wired this included a new fuse box this was done by previous owners in 2001.

The 2nd electrician replaced the breaker with a 6amp one saying the old one was faulty but this still trips. At present it will not reset.

Has anyone any ideas on the problem of where I can find a qualified electrician capable of doing the job. I live in Bromley in Kent.
Hope this post is acceptable and you can help.

If you need more info or I have not explained things correctly please reply and I will give as much info as I can.

Cliff



Mod Edit: Just removed your postcode. Try not to post personal details.

 

[Spudnik]

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

[Cliff]

Hi everyone,
I have been at it for what seems hours. I started in the loft and have found the following (please see photos ) 1 ceiling rose used as a junction box and what I believe is all wrong.

First I had black box with Aquilista written on it this was wired up with the choc blocks and black tape.
I have now put this into correct junction boxes. Without lifting all the floorboards in the loft (will do if needed) I believe the cable runs back to the junction box pictured I believe this is all wrong.
So have tried the following two wires are in the junction box seem to be the wrong type of wire,
ligth flex (sorry dont know correct name) I have taken out the brown and yellow wire and also the live wires for the 2 flex cables and re set the breaker this tripped straight away. I am confused any ideas.
I am not even sure what the black box is for is this a transformer ? it has a fuse in it but that is intack.

I have bought myself an ammeter but am a little confused on how to use it. it measures up to 600V
how would I test the resistance and how would I chaeck each light fitting and wall switch.

Lots of questions if you can help it would save me pulling my hair out.

Cliff

 

[bazza2541]

Black box is a transformer for a shower, I nearly bet money that is your problem. Disconnect it and see if the fault clears. I would also think you will have to go back to a 10amp mcb.

Post a pic of your multimeter please?

 

[Guest123]

Well Cliff, it seems like you have a right bunch of snakes there!!!!!!!!!!

Looking at pic 3 (the ceiling rose) are you able to trace each of the cores connected into the SL terminal i.e the green+yellow in particular as this is obviously being utilised as a switch wire for something but may have inadvertantly been connected to earth at the other end what with it being an earth conductor an all.

The black core in SL will be a switch wire also as for the other brown?????

I would perhaps suggest disconnecting all cores that aren't red or black out of that rose as the red and black cores are the original wireing so removing these additions may leave you with a circuit that works.

PS that black box is a step down transformer feeding the shower unit. This may be the faulty item in your circuit, you could also try disconnecting that to see if the fault clears.

 

[bazza2541]

Well Cliff, it seems like you have a right bunch of snakes there!!!!!!!!!!

Looking at pic 3 (the ceiling rose) are you able to trace each of the cores connected into the SL terminal i.e the green+yellow in particular as this is obviously being utilised as a switch wire for something but may have inadvertantly been connected to earth at the other end what with it being an earth conductor an all.

The black core in SL will be a switch wire also as for the other brown?????

I would perhaps suggest disconnecting all cores that aren't red or black out of that rose as the red and black cores are the original wireing so removing these additions may leave you with a circuit that works.

Moved to PM.

 

[Guest123]

I feel I should also add, only if you are confident to do so. If you are un-certain of anything then it may well be a job for a sparky Cliff.

 

[Cliff]

Thanks very much for getting back so soon, while i was waiting i have lifted the floor boards to see if i can trace back the two flex wires. I have now found another transformer ( taken the cover off all fuses inside are ok not blown. photos enclosed, what you cant see in the photos when they put this in they cut a small rectangle out of the floor board, I have lifted this and it looks like this has been sitting on the wires. as I have marks straight across where the board sat. How can i test this circuit or can i drill the joist and chop out the first few inches and re connect ? I will once I have posted this unconnect the main wire ino this transformer and re set the breaker.
Cliff

 

[bazza2541]

I still think the shower transformer may be the culprit. Its rated at 5amps and you only have a 6amp breaker.As for you multimeter it not really ideal for measuring current but should do quite nicely for voltage and continuity. I prefer a clamp on type meter for current.

 

[Cliff]

Bazza the breaker was a 10 amp one but the electrician said it was faulty so replaced it with the 6amp. any ideas on completing a voltage and continuity test on the shower transformer. I only picked this type as it was non contact type . Not being an electrician i didnt want to start touching metal on metal and ending up fried LOL.

I also purchased a voltage detector and a socket tester just in case the lights had been wired into the sockets ( they have not).

the instructions for the ammeter are not very clear.

Cliff

 

[bazza2541]

Voltage is measured across an appliance (with the wires connected) Current is measured through an appliance (with the wires disconnected) It is for that reason I'd advise you not to worry about measuring current with that multimeter, voltage and continuity are measured in the same fashion, by selecting the appropriate function on the dial and touching the ends of the leads to the different terminals. Voltageis done with the circuit live(obviously) and continuity is done with the circuit de-activated.
You'll need to replace the 6amp MCB with a 10amp.

 

[Cliff]

Thanks bazza, it's clearer now. I have just gone up to try and trace the transformer wire but this goes down beside the chimney stack so I am unable to trace further. One thing I have found two cables not connected one with a block connection and the other just wires taped but not attached to anything.

Cliff

 

[bazza2541]

The cable going down beside the chimney is just the feed to the shower, don't worry about it. Disconnect the black shower transformer and reset the breaker, let us know how you get on.

 

[Cliff]

Back to the drawing board I think, I disconnected the shower transformer and it tripped.
I then re connected that one and disconnected the lighting transformer tripped again.

thanks anyway for the ideas.

Cliff

 

[bazza2541]

Have you replaced the MCB?

 

[Cliff]

just done it replaced with a 10amp one same as board doepke lasted 30 secs then tripped.