In defence of the short course trainee

[Specialist]

Any chance of a full frontal Lobotomy on the cheap trev ?:tounge_smile:

 

[trev]

Hell yeah mate, lie down on the floor I'll go get the mash hammer for an aneasthetic and away we go. I'll throw in a vasectomy for an extra £20 but the wife will do that, I'm not touching your bits

 

[Marvo]

I don't know what goes on with this electrical trainee system as it's being called. I'm only aware is obviously a debacle. The thing from an outsiders point of view is I can't help feeling sorry for guys who've gone this route after being promised a qualification and a new career and then they land in the real world several thousand quid lighter and completely inexperienced. I can also understand the dislike and disdain of the fully qualified electricians but surely the bad feelings would be better focused at the system itself rather than the victims it's producing.

 

[Dcf]

The whole retraining scam is a sneaky government tactic to drive wage rates to rock bottom.cant have sparks earning more than a lawyer/doctor etc now can we?we used to have the highest rates out of all the trades but now??did I do 4 years on crap apprentice money for some donut to undercut me on a consumer unit change for 150 quid, i don't think so.the main point is if I had 5 week wonder working for me for a year his experience of the trade is basically no better than a1st year apprentice would have.we really have to get back to the basics of old heads passing on the knowledge that has been accrued over years of experience.we used to be respected due to the wide scope of work that we used to carry out, not now due to the tactic of trying to compartmentalise the electrical trade into sections.if the job was that easy everyone would be doing it..........oops they all are!

 

[trev]

Marvo I can assure you I have no disdain for the guy who goes down this route and realises he needs a lot more knowledge and works to obtain it but those who do the short course then claim to know it all, that's a different story...
I'm 49 years old, qualified at 22 and I'm still learning.
(I know the college I went to must have been crap hehe)

 

[mackers]

ill stick my ten penath in just for the hell of it.
the short training courses are miss sold. "electrician in 5 weeks earn 50k" complete rubbish, should be starter course to electrics.
no one can learn a skilled job in 5 weeks to a high standard
domestic installer which i dont get ,to me your either an electrician or not when i imploy a spark i expect to be able to send him to what ever job comes in be it domestic,commercial,industrial within reason.
like someone said these poor people are wasting there money the system sucks
experiance is key and u only get experiance from working with good sparks ,if u go on a short course then work on your own whos gonna tell ye if it wrong or right anyway
ill finish now because this subject is now starting to bore me.
ps
i have had such people work with me for experiance and to be fair,they spent alot of money and did not know how to connect a bog standard bulkhead up connected L and N to the screws of the bracket that holds the L/H i **** u not!

 

[Specialist]

Geezus trev: Your younger than me (Just):tounge_smile: I'll take the Lobotomy by the way but hold off on the Circumspection (I don't like house bricks:nonod No mate the college you went to was'nt crap at all, I'm still learning too & any Electrician that says he knows it all & does'nt learn different stuff regularly is a fool. Marvo as trev said mate, if someone is doing this to better themselves & wants to learn properly then good on them. But there are more that believe the hype given by the Salesmen & come on here thinking they're gods gift after doing a 5 week course & then ask the Dumbest questions imagineable & that's what gets to us. Be honest, if some muppet came up to you & said you give us £8,000 or whatever & in 5 weeks we can teach you a Trade that normally takes 5 years to learn and at the end of it you can earn £50,000 you'd probably smack him in the teeth.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I don't know what goes on with this electrical trainee system as it's being called. I'm only aware is obviously a debacle. The thing from an outsiders point of view is I can't help feeling sorry for guys who've gone this route after being promised a qualification and a new career and then they land in the real world several thousand quid lighter and completely inexperienced. I can also understand the dislike and disdain of the fully qualified electricians but surely the bad feelings would be better focused at the system itself rather than the victims it's producing.

well you carry on being an "outsider" then...MARVO...(whatever that is?)......i dont care.......

 

[ipf]

Geezus trev: Your younger than me (Just):tounge_smile: I'll take the Lobotomy by the way but hold off on the Circumspection (I don't like house bricks:nonod No mate the college you went to was'nt crap at all, I'm still learning too & any Electrician that says he knows it all & does'nt learn different stuff regularly is a fool. Marvo as trev said mate, if someone is doing this to better themselves & wants to learn properly then good on them. But there are more that believe the hype given by the Salesmen & come on here thinking they're gods gift after doing a 5 week course & then ask the Dumbest questions imagineable & that's what gets to us. Be honest, if some muppet came up to you & said you give us £8,000 or whatever & in 5 weeks we can teach you a Trade that normally takes 5 years to learn and at the end of it you can earn £50,000 you'd probably smack him in the teeth.

I did learn a lot in my 5 years app, in most aspects of the job. But I've learned an awful lot more since, with plenty more to come, hopefully. You don't build a house without the foundations.

 

[Knobhead]

How do the Electrical Trainee’s get insurance? Any company with an ounce of sense wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole.

 

[malcolmsanford]

To be fair Tony Domestic electrics is inherently safe, there are of course instances on the news where houses have burnt down, and people have been electrocuted, but these are rarities, hence why they make the news, so I suppose insuring a Electrical Trainee is not that great a risk, I'm sure we have all seen nightmare work, that in fact work, and not caused a fire or killed anyone yet.

It is when we start to get into your game mate that it becomes, well bum tingling to be honest. I would definitely struggle at first on the equipment you worked on, simply becasue I have never most likely seen it, but because of my foundation training, I would get to grips with it. I'm sure it would be the same for you if I put you in a Data centre or a large office complex or hospital, at first it would what the? But because of your underpinning it would not take you long to get your head around it.

So because of our countries decision to decimate our manufacturing base, there really is not that much need for fully rounded electricians like us dinosaurs. Before I came out here I did the testing through an agency for Pembury Hospital and it was a doddle, not the testing mind, but the install, it was all plug and play, technology as really started to replace us, I think electricians are going to be the 21st century equivalent to the 19th century Weavers, gone in a few generations. It as started with the SMA and the top companies trying to introduce these all flavour technicians on a low rate, and though I applaud our lads on here their fight, it is a fight we are ultimately going to loose.

There as been a decision somewhere that certainly in the domestic field training from now on is going to be the 5W course, and it will never be expected these guys to venture into what is left of industrial/commercial. Oh I'm sure there will be a few that do, but in all honesty I can't see there being more than perhaps 10% of the electrical workforce being industrial in 25-30 yrs, and these guys will indeed be specialist.

It may be in 40 yrs time there will be a forum where the electrical trainee will be berating the state of our industry that guys are coming into it, with no training at all, because house wiring is being done in modular packs, made in a factory in China, shipped over and installed by the house holder or anyone that can literally walk. Yes tongue in cheek, but if I told the sparks that trained me that in 40 yrs there wil lbe guys trained as "sparks" in 5 weeks, they would have thought I was being soft .

 

[dixon9]

I tend to be a bit more philosophical about the subject of 5 weekers and lean towards the theory of natural selection; anyone who doesn't really know enough to do the job will eventually crack and end up doing something else anyway. Should they "survive" then it's probably because they became good enough anyway.

The dangers? To themselves and/or the customer who has had the work done? Again - natural selection; enough accidents will eventually cause a change in law.

In the meantime, there's much that we can do about it. Just wait for natural selection to take it's course.

 

[Marvo]

well you carry on being an "outsider" then...MARVO...(whatever that is?)......i dont care.......

By outsider I meant I don't live or work in the UK and I have very little grasp of the system of qualifications there.

 

[malcolmsanford]

By outsider I meant I don't live or work in the UK and I have very little grasp of the system of qualifications there.

So a lot like a Electrical Trainee wonder then ..............stop it malc anyone seen my pills?

 

[Guest112]

i can see this thread going on forever, its a sore subject on the destruction of our industry my opinion is work wouldnt be so hard to find if they didnt let anyone and everyone do a 5 day course and be deemed "competant" by these silly part p scemes, i feel sorry for the people who do pay the money and then realise how much they dont know afterwards.

but they are allowed to do it and its the system that is flawed and its just people taking advantage of it