Industry failing us

[Jonson]

I just wanted to post a bit of a moan I suppose, i think it's ashame how electrical industry falling to peices, with all these short courses on offer to part time cowboys, what happened to 4 year apprenticeships then calling yourself a spark, no wonder wages are rubbish and standard of work is poor, calling yourself a spark when you have done your theory, do you reckon these guys can bend conduit and submit decent work. I know it's a moan but frustrating for us apprenticeship trained guys, what's other peops views on this

 

[UNG]

The fast track route has been around for a long time (any one remember the skillcentres of the 70's and 80's) it's just a lot faster now brought about by Labours ideas on filling the perceived skills shortage and the entrpeneurial companies that are looking to make a quick buck. The only problem these courses have is they don't teach all the skills hence the reason why the electrical industry is becoming so fragmented with some skills becoming specialised areas that where bread and butter skills 20 or 30 years ago. I can understand why the older sparks, myself included find there qualifications eroded because we haven't got an NVQ3 or done an AM2 and the City & Guilds changing courses so they can create another course and exam. The rot set in with the 15th edition a course and exam created to prove you can read and interpret a set of regs and we all know what has happened since. How long will it be before we have to requalify every 5 years

 

[mickys86]

To be honest mate, if I was your gaffer, I wouldn't deem that tray work acceptable (purely from looking at the photo - maybe its just the camera angle), right the bulge in the middle stands out. Head downwards and you've joined the bottom left hand set in two different pieces of tray - from a cost point of view this would of been expensive. Could you not have done the bottom joint in one piece? Now head up, and in my opinion you're missing a fixing (either shallow strut or directly fixed to the wall) one brick up from the top bracket.

Mate I think your confused about what that tray work was for. This was a job in college that was towards my 2330. The bulge in the middle is in fact, a perfectly constructed bridge.
The reason why it is in separate peices because this is what the College asks for.
And as for the missing fixing? I can't see where that is? At the end of the tray work ( at the top ) it is graduated down to the brick so that it is running flush with the wall. Maybe your confused with that?

Thank you for your comments, I'm on here to learn and I do take criticism well because I believe that is how you learn, but one word comes to mind.... Specsavers ;-)

 

[millwall ken]

Mate I think your confused about what that tray work was for. This was a job in college that was towards my 2330. The bulge in the middle is in fact, a perfectly constructed bridge.
The reason why it is in separate peices because this is what the College asks for.
And as for the missing fixing? I can't see where that is? At the end of the tray work ( at the top ) it is graduated down to the brick so that it is running flush with the wall. Maybe your confused with that?

Thank you for your comments, I'm on here to learn and I do take criticism well because I believe that is how you learn, but one word comes to mind.... Specsavers ;-)

Like I said mate, it could be the photo. Still at least you can take constructive criticism without sulking. As for specsavers; well thats your opinion.

But you try speaking to a spark like that on site mate!!!!

 

[ian.settle1]

No mate, I was out for a nice 'romantic' evening with the missus.

Got there, and the service was a joke. So the missus started waffling off about this, that and everything - so naturally my mind started to wonder. Checked out a bird with a lovely top rack, ditto the waitresses' peachy behind BUT then I started to take things in; about the decor... Sloppy paintwork, etc.

Then I noticed the tray and conduit work. So up I got for a closer look at a conduit drop (to a switch), and it had three kinks in it. It was s***e.

I mentioned it to the missus, but it went over her head.

So I started to glance around and I noticed over things like poorly slotted tray, 25mm conduit going into 20mm then back to 25mm (purely because they must of run out of one size pipe or the other but had a few adaptors/reducers knocking about). And my own favourite, they had done a bridge set in the tray over some suspended conduit (which was hanging off of hangers!!!)

The service got worse after the starters; plus there was a group of chavvy birds non-stop laughing over my left shoulder... So I sort of got a bit upset. And rather than row with the missus I started to question the manager on the shoody workmanship. Needless to say, we got asked to leave and I spent three nights on the sofa.

We laugh about it now but it really pee'd me off that a so-called spark would of put his name to such crap workmanship.

Sounds like a C*** resturant if you can see all this while having your meal.

 

[ian.settle1]

So what is the difference between Pyro and MI:thinking:

Someone doesn't know that there is no the difference that is the answer.:earmuffs::bomb2:

 

[AP Electrical]

Take a look around site any site and every trade has changed, nobody is trained the same anymore IMO, there's not the money to do it, all there is is a long production line coming out of colleges with half trained dross falling of the end - I include myself in that statement by the way, Money is king - wait 5-10 years for plug and play to realy kick off, and it becomes basically skilled labour.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

As far as I'm aware for many years the only way to become a qualified ,competant and approved electrician was via a 4/5 year apprenticeship. There's a reason for that. That reason remains and yet the training period gets shorter and shorter. Thats why there are far more incompetant qualified electricians around now than there ever have been.
Many of the basic questions asked on this forum by qualified people make me despair.....we all have to start at the bottom,but the point is under the apprenticeship system you were not let loose unsupervised onto the worlds electrics until you had a proved degree of competance....that is no longer the case.

 

[Electricalserv]

Focus phil a house basher don't make you a spark anyway

Are you for real. So before this word 'Domestic Installer' came around those guys who chose to do electrical work in domestic premises (because someone has to) aren't sparks.


You judge this on the ability to bend conduit? I am sick of these full apprentiship lads knocking everyone else.

I never done an apprentiship but I've been in the trade 6 1/2 years. Both tech certs. 17th Edition & 2391 and I'm not a spark because I do domestic.


You are having a laugh. This is the exact post which makes me have no cause for concern of the full apprentiship lads. You reap what you so.

I hate the 5 day wonders.....The reasoin why because I am competing with them for work daily, aswell as picking up where they left off. Its crap!!!! because they are slowly attacking my trade with no real right to do so. They give me a bad name.


For the likes of you and any other commercial and industrial sparks...it doesn't effect you at all because they aren't attacking your sector.


You only make these comments as you think you are far superior because you sat a full apprentiship and you're good at bending metal. lol You make me laugh.


As previously said the Inspection, Testing, Certification and fault finding sorts the MEN (real sparks) from the BOYS (installation sparks, conduit etc)

 

[Electricalserv]

As far as I'm aware for many years the only way to become a qualified ,competant and approved electrician was via a 4/5 year apprenticeship. There's a reason for that. That reason remains and yet the training period gets shorter and shorter. Thats why there are far more incompetant qualified electricians around now than there ever have been.
Many of the basic questions asked on this forum by qualified people make me despair.....we all have to start at the bottom,but the point is under the apprenticeship system you were not let loose unsupervised onto the worlds electrics until you had a proved degree of competance....that is no longer the case.

What about the other day when someone who sat a full apprentiship, NVQ3, has called me a laborer in the past comes on and asks if its possible to wire a domestic premise in flex and also if her had done an IR test right lol...labourer my butt...full apprentiship my butt!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Are you for real. So before this word 'Domestic Installer' came around those guys who chose to do electrical work in domestic premises (because someone has to) aren't sparks.


You judge this on the ability to bend conduit? I am sick of these full apprentiship lads knocking everyone else.

I never done an apprentiship but I've been in the trade 6 1/2 years. Both tech certs. 17th Edition & 2391 and I'm not a spark because I do domestic.


You are having a laugh. This is the exact post which makes me have no cause for concern of the full apprentiship lads. You reap what you so.

I hate the 5 day wonders.....The reasoin why because I am competing with them for work daily, aswell as picking up where they left off. Its crap!!!! because they are slowly attacking my trade with no real right to do so. They give me a bad name.


For the likes of you and any other commercial and industrial sparks...it doesn't effect you at all because they aren't attacking your sector.


You only make these comments as you think you are far superior because you sat a full apprentiship and you're good at bending metal. lol You make me laugh.


As previously said the Inspection, Testing, Certification and fault finding sorts the MEN (real sparks) from the BOYS (installation sparks, conduit etc)

Electricalserv re-my previous post which may give the impression that I think anyone who has not completed an apprenticeship is incompetant.
That is not my view.....but my view is that since the apprenticeship route was largely abandoned there has been a significant rise in the number of qualified people who dont have a flamin' clue.I dont incude you in that because I respect your knowledge in your posts and have no reason to devalue your work having not seen it.

 

[Electricalserv]

Electricalserv re-my previous post which may give the impression that I think anyone who has not completed an apprenticeship is incompetant.
That is not my view.....but my view is that since the apprenticeship route was largely abandoned there has been a significant rise in the number of qualified people who dont have a flamin' clue.I dont incude you in that because I respect your knowledge in your posts and have no reason to devalue your work having not seen it.

What about the member who I descibe who is a so called time served spark directing a company but has to ask if its possible to wire domestic in flex and if he did and IR test right on a plug!!!

 

[Electricalserv]

Electricalserv re-my previous post which may give the impression that I think anyone who has not completed an apprenticeship is incompetant.
That is not my view.....but my view is that since the apprenticeship route was largely abandoned there has been a significant rise in the number of qualified people who dont have a flamin' clue.I dont incude you in that because I respect your knowledge in your posts and have no reason to devalue your work having not seen it.

My post wasn't aimed at you wirepuller. I am all for apprentiships would have loved to have done one. Never got the chance, no employer would back me financialy.

Just when people knock you as a spark because you never sat one and judge it on conduit.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Nobody,especially me...is going to claim that all apprentice trained sparks are the dogs danglies......The point I made, and stand by is that since fast track training became the norm there has been a significant increase in incompetance....Yes there are incompetant apprentice trained electricians,just as there are incompetant quickie electricians....but there is a lot more incompetance now than there ever was.

 

[electromonkey]

Could it be that because the industry is regulated more so than ever, that poor standard installations are more noticeable than in the past? I can't say I've encountered too many problems to date from brown and blue installations.

 

[nickblake]

be honest the trade is like driving once you past your test you start to learn to drive same with this industry once you get qualified you then start to learn and you keep learning and always will